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Forums - Sales - The difficulty of selling a Wii

Final-Fan on 23 October 2007
cdude1034 said:

(A)I'm not a benevolent businessman. I'm someone out to make a buck. What I disagree with is people saying I'm taking the sunshine away from some poor child because of what I'm doing. I won't pretend to be this savior for someone looking for a Wii.

(B)You can I do disagree on our economic and (maybe) political ideals, and that's ok. The name calling has to stop though as it doesn't contribute to the conversation.

(C)Regardless, I wasn't trying to brag, I wasn't trying to sell my Wii with my thread, I was just trying to ask a couple of questions and all of a sudden these deep questions such as "Is it moral to do what I'm doing?" came up. If you define it in terms of the capitalist, yes, it's perfectly acceptable. If you look at it in the sense of "is it for the greater good?", then no, as it benefits me slightly more than it benefits someone looking for a Wii.

(D)Here's the deal though, people pay for convenience. Why do people pay $4 for a cup of coffee at Starbucks? Because they're too damn lazy to make one for themselves. I don't care about the argument about them having different kinds of coffee, because regardless of what they actually buy, they're still willing to pay a ridiculous amount for it.

These people are my customers.

People pay for the convenience of having power locks and windows on their cars, regardless of the fact that they're perfectly capable of rolling down the windows themselves.

(E)People are perfectly capable of finding a Wii for themselves. Some choose not to. This is who will buy from me.

Everybody has their own sob story about why they can't get one. Do the stores care? No. Does Nintendo care? You can bet your macchiato they don't.

This is the consequence of economy in America.

(end)


(A) I am not trying to say or imply that you are ruining little Timmy's Christmas or anything of that sort.

(B) The closest thing to name-calling is saying that you are a parasite, and that is a term that I carefully defined here; despite negative connotations it is true (or I logically argue it to be and have not been shown to be wrong) and you can't honestly deny that what you are engaged in does have negative connotations in this society or any I can think of. 

(C) In terms of pure amoral capitalism, yes it is; but in that case you admit that you are amoral.  Is that what you are saying here -- that you are amoral?  [<-- REQUIRES AN ANSWER] 

(C) Your activities do not benefit you "slightly" more than individuals looking for Wiis; they benefit only you in sum, because you make a Wii available to one person while simultaneously making a Wii unavailable to another.  The fact that one person has a Wii (thanks to you) is exactly canceled by the fact that another person does not (thanks to you); you hurt people at least as much as you help (I would argue more because the deprived person spent time and effort that they will have to spend AGAIN later to get a Wii, while your customer most likely would not have spent that time and effort -- but never mind all that), so the end results of your activities are that you make money and that Wii sits useless for a few days. 

(D) These platitudes are arguable in themselves, but please let us discard them without argument since they are totally irrelevant to the argument at hand.  The willingness of people to "pay for convenience" has nothing to do with whether or not you are a parasite on the market. 

(E) The only relevant thing you say here is that your customer base is the people too lazy to go out and look for one.  This is completely true.  But you also satisfy that customer base by taking away from another group, namely the people who are NOT too lazy to go out and look for one.  You make some people more miserable in order to make some other people happy. 

(end) of my answers to your specific points.  My argument will follow.




Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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Final-Fan on 23 October 2007

A "trader" takes an item from one market, where it is cheap ($X), to another market, where it is expensive ($Y), and sells it for $Z (where X<Z<Y).  This benefits both the trader, who profits, and the customers, who save money (they have to pay less).  

A "scalper" takes an item that is sold in short supply at a fixed price (Wii) or is sold out (tickets) and sells that item in the same market he obtained it in for profit. This benefits the scalper, who profits, and allows sufficiently desperate individual customers to obtain the item; however, the customers in general are hurt by this process (they have to pay more).

The trader adds value to the first market.  He also adds value to the second market.  The scalper, however, adds no value except to his own wallet.  Note, however, that the market clearly accomodates scalpers, since some customers do see sufficient value in the item in question to allow themselves to be scalped.  So the scalper functions in exactly the same way as any other purveyor of goods, on the level of the individual customer; it is only in the context of the market as a whole that scalping is identified.  

As I have demonstrated, "scalpers" and "traders" are clearly distinct and separate. The ultimate difference between them is that the trader enjoys a symbiotic relationship with the markets he serves, whereas the scalper is a simple parasite.  Nevertheless, scalping, in modest amounts, is tolerated as a natural function of imperfectly capitalist societies, as long as the scalpers are neither too numerous nor too greedy.  

You, sir, are a parasite to the market. And since you are a natural function of our imperfect capitalist system, we accept that as long as you don't suck too much blood or deny your parasitic nature.


Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 23 October 2007

And just because I like my lovely Flatland, here's the revised edition: [edit: version 2.2!]

Suppose there's a lake in Flatland. (Flatland is a hypothetical two-dimensional world, as if on a sheet of paper. Therefore, the lake is not defined by three-dimensional boundaries but is more like a puddle of water on a table.)

People live on the edge of this Flatlake, and use the water for various nonessential things such as watering their flatlawns. The rate at which the Flatlake replenishes to its natural maximum comes to be exceeded by the Flatlander's rate of water use, so the Flatlake shrinks. The Flatlanders now have to walk a certain distance in order to obtain their water.  Now, the lake is once again refilling, but only slowly, and the lakeshore is still far short of being full

cdude1034 is like an entrepeneur who offers, for a fee, to shift a portion of the Flatlake so that is is closer to one group of people -- and consequently further from others. cdude makes his profit, and some people benefit, but only by costing others their own access in equal proportion. He is taking a bucket that would have gone to someone for free and selling it to someone for a price.

The Flatlake is analogous to the Wii thusly: the full flatlake is "Wiis in stock in stores", while the reduced Flatlake is "Wiis available to people who get there soon after shipment arrives". The Flatlake's rate of replenishment is obviously shipments from Nintendo. cdude's lake-shifting is the Wiis he deprives People A on (let's say) the west lake shore to sell to People B on the eastern shore. I believe that my analogy is close enough to the Wii situation in the USA for any reasonable purpose.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

cdude1034 on 23 October 2007

Ok, Final, then by your definition, I am a parasite.

Other responses:

(B) It wasn't necesarrily you that was doing to name calling, I didn't mean to direct that at you.

(C) Amorality is a subjective thing. It really depends on your view of the world. "Survival of the fittest" vs. "Everybody gets a slice of the pie. A smaller piece than Survival, but a piece nonetheless". So sorry I can't give a definitive response on that one.

(D)It doesn't have to do with whether or not I'm a parasite, but that wasn't what I was arguing to begin with. I've accepted that. I was more or less arguing why I do what I do.

(E)I honestly think the biggest beneficiary is the person who wants the Wii the most. They're willing to pay for it. Some are more miserable, some are happier. The market makes no such distinction as it's a 1-for-1.

You've made your point, and using your definitions you can make Ghandi look like the anti-Christ. If you wish to debate further, my AIM is cdude1034. 



 

Currently playing: Civ 6

Final-Fan on 23 October 2007
DonWii said:

Oh, it already got there.  Fortunately there weren't any flames other than ASSnosticBanned early on.  

Nice picture.  Did you just get it?  I notice you've been using it recently.   



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Around the Network
cdude1034 on 23 October 2007
Final-Fan said:
And just because I like my lovely Flatland, here's the revised edition:

Suppose there's a lake in Flatland. (Flatland is a hypothetical two-dimensional world, as if on a sheet of paper. Therefore, the lake is not defined by three-dimensional boundaries but is more like a puddle of water on a table.)

People live on the edge of this Flatlake, and use the water for various nonessential things such as watering their flatlawns. The rate at which the Flatlake replenishes to its natural maximum comes to be exceeded by the Flatlander's rate of water use, so the Flatlake shrinks. The Flatlanders now have to walk a certain distance in order to obtain their water.

cdude1034 is like an entrepeneur who offers, for a fee, to shift a portion of the Flatlake so that is is closer to one group of people -- and consequently further from others. cdude makes his profit, and some people benefit, but only by costing others their own access in equal proportion. He is taking a bucket that would have gone to someone for free and selling it to someone for a price.

The Flatlake is analogous to the Wii thusly: the full flatlake is "Wiis in stock in stores", while the reduced Flatlake is "Wiis available to people who get there soon after shipment arrives". The Flatlake's rate of replenishment is obviously shipments from Nintendo. cdude's lake-shifting is the Wiis he deprives People A on (let's say) the west lake shore to sell to People B on the eastern shore. I believe that my analogy is close enough to the Wii situation in the USA for any reasonable purpose.

 What it doesn't take into account however is that it's not a limited supply of water. More water gets pushed out at regular intervals, so there will never be a shortage for those willing to look.



 

Currently playing: Civ 6

Final-Fan on 23 October 2007
cdude1034 said:

Ok, Final, then by your definition, I am a parasite.

Other responses:

(B) It wasn't necesarrily you that was doing to name calling, I didn't mean to direct that at you.

(C) Amorality is a subjective thing. It really depends on your view of the world. "Survival of the fittest" vs. "Everybody gets a slice of the pie. A smaller piece than Survival, but a piece nonetheless". So sorry I can't give a definitive response on that one.

(D)It doesn't have to do with whether or not I'm a parasite, but that wasn't what I was arguing to begin with. I've accepted that. I was more or less arguing why I do what I do.

(E)I honestly think the biggest beneficiary is the person who wants the Wii the most. They're willing to pay for it. Some are more miserable, some are happier. The market makes no such distinction as it's a 1-for-1.

You've made your point, and using your definitions you can make Ghandi look like the anti-Christ. If you wish to debate further, my AIM is cdude1034.


I almost thought he was going to lose graciously there for a minute.  Ah, snide parting shots. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

cdude1034 on 23 October 2007

What? There is no winning and losing this as it's a matter of personal opinions either way.

Edit: Let me give you an example:

MLK Jr.

He was in a big leadership position for the Civil Rights Movement. To white people, he could have been the anti-Christ. He was threatening their way of life that they had known for so long.

Your arguments are like this, skewing definitions just enough to prove your point. 



 

Currently playing: Civ 6

Final-Fan on 23 October 2007
cdude1034 said:
Final-Fan said:
And just because I like my lovely Flatland, here's the revised edition:

Suppose there's a lake in Flatland. (Flatland is a hypothetical two-dimensional world, as if on a sheet of paper. Therefore, the lake is not defined by three-dimensional boundaries but is more like a puddle of water on a table.)

People live on the edge of this Flatlake, and use the water for various nonessential things such as watering their flatlawns. The rate at which the Flatlake replenishes to its natural maximum comes to be exceeded by the Flatlander's rate of water use, so the Flatlake shrinks. The Flatlanders now have to walk a certain distance in order to obtain their water.

cdude1034 is like an entrepeneur who offers, for a fee, to shift a portion of the Flatlake so that is is closer to one group of people -- and consequently further from others. cdude makes his profit, and some people benefit, but only by costing others their own access in equal proportion. He is taking a bucket that would have gone to someone for free and selling it to someone for a price.

The Flatlake is analogous to the Wii thusly: the full flatlake is "Wiis in stock in stores", while the reduced Flatlake is "Wiis available to people who get there soon after shipment arrives". The Flatlake's rate of replenishment is obviously shipments from Nintendo. cdude's lake-shifting is the Wiis he deprives People A on (let's say) the west lake shore to sell to People B on the eastern shore. I believe that my analogy is close enough to the Wii situation in the USA for any reasonable purpose.

What it doesn't take into account however is that it's not a limited supply of water. More water gets pushed out at regular intervals, so there will never be a shortage for those willing to look.


If you'd bother to read what I wrote, you'd see that I do specifically say that it replenishes its water. The point is that you are making people look harder. OMFG.

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

jjseth on 23 October 2007

So are you one of those parasites that will list that there are 14 games in that bundle of Wii with the wii sports and wii play and claim that?

eBayers just make me sick.



 


Get your Portable ID!

 

My pokemon brings all the nerds to the yard. And they're like, "You wanna trade cards?" Damn right, I wanna trade cards. I'll trade this, but not my charizard.