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Forums - Sales - The difficulty of selling a Wii

Final-Fan said:
Eomund said:
Final-Fan said:
Eomund said:


Eomund said:
choirsoftheeye said:


What you are not taking into account between your example with Flatland and Real Life is that there is always more supply being pumped out by Nintendo. I also disagree with your premise that he "offers, for a fee, to shift the Flatlake so that is is closer to one group of people -- and consequently further from others." He isn't shifting the entire flatlake, he is more carrying a bucket of water for someone else. Does the person buying that bucket of water EXPECT to get his service for free? Not if the person is rational.

I do not see how Cdude is not benefitting the market in general either. If someone will buy it then it is a good transaction. That benefits the market, no? When supply shrinks and demand is still high, prices by necessity will rise if they aren't fixed. In this manner supply may meet demand.


He's taking a bucket that would have gone to someone for free (in the example), and selling it to someone for a price. Just because it WORKS capitalistically doesn't make it A-OK. The fact that the Wii is not in a closed system doesn't make a closed-system analogy a bad comparison. As for how he fails to benefit the market, I explain this in the exchange I am having with cdude himself, although I also think that the example spells it out fairly clearly.

And hey, I'll even make the Flatlake a perfect analogy for the Wii. The full flatlake is "Wiis in stock in stores", smaller Flatlake is "Wiis available to people who get there soon after shipment arrives". The Flatlake grows at a steady pace until it reaches full size, but the Flatlanders are currently using more than it replenishes. cdude's "bucket" is the Wiis he deprives People A on the west lake shore to sell to People B on the eastern shore. My analogy is now perfect to the Wii situation in the USA, or close enough for any reasonable purpose in this discussion.

Your premise in Flatland is still flawed. You are comparing a needed resource, Flatlake, with a luxury item, a Wii. There is no problem with him selling a bucket of water in Flatland either, in fact he could start a small business doing just that, would that be scalping in that case? Also, "Just because it WORKS capitalistically doesn't make it A-OK." is flawed because it DOESN'T MAKE IT WRONG EITHER! People are personally insulting him, that is what is not A-OK. He can sell them for a profit and he will be perfectly within the bounds of ethical business.

He provides a service to those who will pay. In essence his service is to hold the Wii until someone needs it. The retail stores are bound to a fixed price. He however isn't. He can raise the price so people who do not value a Wii at that price will not buy it. He is holding it until someone that values a Wii at the price he is asking purchases it from him.



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cdude1034 said:
twesterm said:
cdude1034 said:

So I recently posted a Wii on my local Craigslist, but so far all I've gotten was one reply saying "You can find them in the stores for $250" (I'm selling for $330)

Yes, I understand people don't wanna pay above retail, but I can't help but wonder if I would've had this problem if the Wii was still selling as quickly.

Recently I've noticed in my area that stores are getting larger shipments (at least Gamestops are) and are selling out less quickly, and I wonder if that's a nationwide trend, or just certain regions getting a larger supply.

I suppose what I'm asking is if anyone is/was in a similar situation trying to sell a Wii or if you noticed the same things I have, or the opposite.


That's what you get for being a dick and trying to make a profit off people trying to get something for their kids. Try selling your Wii for $250 + shipping and I guarantee you it will sell almost instantly.


Chill man. I'm not a dick, I'm an opportunist. I can guarantee you, from my posts on here, that wasn't justified.

Anyway, I'm selling now so I can get more capital to buy more and sell them during December. I know how to play the game children.


 This part made me laugh (and get strange stares from co-workers, wondering whats going on at my desk).  You seem to have the same view on things as this individual I know.  The dude also calls himself an opportunist.  Everyone else uses a different word when refering to him   8)



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

twesterm said:
 

Trying to pass a technicality like that is like trying to say a thief doesn't steal, they just borrow with no intent of returning.

 


 

If I were you I wouldn't use analogies in this thread, it seems some people are extremely sensitive to them.

 

sinha said:
 

And that's where you and I disagree. I think whoever is wants a product the most should get it. But we can't just ask people "How bad do you want a Wii?" because everyone who wanted one would have the same answer ("A lot" "More than that other guy" etc.). Therefore whoever is willing to pay the most for a product should get it. Does that favor the rich to some extent? Of course, welcome to real life. But in this case there are still plenty of Wiis available to people with less money to get from stores for the listed price. And some of those poorer people are probably the same people who are picking up the extra Wiis and selling them to rich people for a higher price. Or do you think wealthy people like to make a little extra cash selling Wiis on ebay?

 


So according to you, the best solution would be for Nintendo to start selling Wiis with an auction system?

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

cdude1034 said:
Final-Fan said:
 

You ARE misunderstanding my argument, by which I mean your response COMPETELY IGNORES the argument I made and instead talks about how the monetary system is like a bartering system, which it's NOT.

My definitions of "scalper" and "trader" are clearly distinct and separate. The ultimate difference between them is that the trader enjoys a symbiotic relationship with the markets he serves, whereas the scalper is a simple parasite.

You, sir, are a parasite to the market. And since you are a natural function of our imperfect capitalist system, we accept that as long as you don't suck too much blood or deny your parasitic nature.

But, I provide a service/product to someone who needs it, who in turn, gives me the money I desire. That by definition also makes me a symbiote.


So you provide a service/product that was already there, for someone who needs it, but add extra cost. Hmmm, what school teaches that is a symbiote?



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

NJ5 said:
twesterm said:
 

Trying to pass a technicality like that is like trying to say a thief doesn't steal, they just borrow with no intent of returning.

 


 

If I were you I wouldn't use analogies in this thread, it seems some people are extremely sensitive to them.

 

 

 


 Mine doesn't involve rape, just thievery (another fun word) so I think I'll be alright. 



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twesterm said:
NJ5 said:
twesterm said:
 

Trying to pass a technicality like that is like trying to say a thief doesn't steal, they just borrow with no intent of returning.

 


 

If I were you I wouldn't use analogies in this thread, it seems some people are extremely sensitive to them.

 

 

 


Mine doesn't involve rape, just thievery (another fun word) so I think I'll be alright.


Next time I'll conduct a poll on what exact analogy I should use :P At least it could stop people from replying to an argument with the "wow I'm offended" defense move.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Eomund said:
choirsoftheeye said:
Dear Everyone,

The fact that capitalism is beneficial for some things doesn't mean that all instances of it are ethical or worthwhile. This isn't a debate of socialism vs. capitalism, it's a debate about a particular facet of capitalism. Stop grandstanding about the free market and consider the specific ethical properties of what I believe has been correctly identified as scalping.

Thanks!
-Choirs

Sadly, Capitalism is exactly what this is about. IF NOBODY VALUES A WII AT HIS ASKING POINT NOBODY WILL BUY IT! He will not take advantage of anybody that wants his Product. You may indeed call this scalping, that doesn't mean this is exactly what is happening. It is all about your perspective, world-view, paradigm, prism of reality, etc... of the market. I don't think he is taking advantage of anyone, so I cannot say that he is crossing any ethical line in the sand.


Except that he's not actually offering a product he created -- he's selling you a product that retailers can't legally sell for above MSRP but he's putting a huge markup on it because demand is high enough to do so.  It's definitely a grey area, and definitely not something a nice person would do. 



Eomund said:
Final-Fan said:
Eomund said:
Final-Fan said:
Eomund said:


Eomund said:
choirsoftheeye said:



Let's say there's a lake in Flatland. (i.e. hypothetical two-dimensional world, as if on a sheet of paper.) People live on the edge of this Flatlake, and use the water for various things. Then the Flatlake shrinks. cdude is like an entrepeneur who offers, for a fee, to shift the Flatlake so that is is closer to one group of people -- and consequently further from others. cdude makes his profit, and some people "benefit", but that doesn't make him ethical -- and he does NOT benefit the market in general.

What you are not taking into account between your example with Flatland and Real Life is that there is always more supply being pumped out by Nintendo. I also disagree with your premise that he "offers, for a fee, to shift the Flatlake so that is is closer to one group of people -- and consequently further from others." He isn't shifting the entire flatlake, he is more carrying a bucket of water for someone else. Does the person buying that bucket of water EXPECT to get his service for free? Not if the person is rational.

I do not see how Cdude is not benefitting the market in general either. If someone will buy it then it is a good transaction. That benefits the market, no? When supply shrinks and demand is still high, prices by necessity will rise if they aren't fixed. In this manner supply may meet demand.


He's taking a bucket that would have gone to someone for free (in the example), and selling it to someone for a price. Just because it WORKS capitalistically doesn't make it A-OK. The fact that the Wii is not in a closed system doesn't make a closed-system analogy a bad comparison. As for how he fails to benefit the market, I explain this in the exchange I am having with cdude himself, although I also think that the example spells it out fairly clearly.

And hey, I'll even make the Flatlake a perfect analogy for the Wii. The full flatlake is "Wiis in stock in stores", smaller Flatlake is "Wiis available to people who get there soon after shipment arrives". The Flatlake grows at a steady pace until it reaches full size, but the Flatlanders are currently using more than it replenishes. cdude's "bucket" is the Wiis he deprives People A on the west lake shore to sell to People B on the eastern shore. My analogy is now perfect to the Wii situation in the USA, or close enough for any reasonable purpose in this discussion.

Your premise in Flatland is still flawed. You are comparing a needed resource, Flatlake, with a luxury item, a Wii. There is no problem with him selling a bucket of water in Flatland either, in fact he could start a small business doing just that, would that be scalping in that case? Also, "Just because it WORKS capitalistically doesn't make it A-OK." is flawed because it DOESN'T MAKE IT WRONG EITHER! People are personally insulting him, that is what is not A-OK. He can sell them for a profit and he will be perfectly within the bounds of ethical business.

He provides a service to those who will pay. In essence his service is to hold the Wii until someone needs it. The retail stores are bound to a fixed price. He however isn't. He can raise the price so people who do not value a Wii at that price will not buy it. He is holding it until someone that values a Wii at the price he is asking purchases it from him.


Fine: Flatlanders don't need to drink it, they just want to water their lawns. You have only criticized my analogy, not my argument; do you concede that I am right in that arena?

But thank you nonetheless for criticizing my analogy; I am much happier to have made such a good comparison of something I came up with on the fly.

People's insulting him is bad but does not make him any closer to being in the right; otherwise Bush would be the greatest leader on the planet.

HE IS A PARASITE ON THE MARKET EVEN IF INDIVIDUAL CUSTOMERS WILLINGLY DO BUSINESS WITH HIM. Just as a monopoly could charge whatever the hell they want for, let's say, deoderant. It's a luxury item -- you can be stinky or bathe more often or use some traditional remedy -- but that doesn't mean that the fact that tons of people would keep buying $50 deoderant sticks turns it into a legitimate business practice. Viability =/= legitimacy.



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Final-Fan said:
 

Fine: Flatlanders don't need to drink it, they just want to water their lawns. You have only criticized my analogy, not my argument; do you concede that I am right in that arena?

But thank you nonetheless for criticizing my analogy; I am much happier to have made such a good comparison of something I came up with on the fly.

People's insulting him is bad but does not make him any closer to being in the right; otherwise Bush would be the greatest leader on the planet.

HE IS A PARASITE ON THE MARKET EVEN IF INDIVIDUAL CUSTOMERS WILLINGLY DO BUSINESS WITH HIM. Just as a monopoly could charge whatever the hell they want for, let's say, deoderant. It's a luxury item -- you can be stinky or bathe more often or use some traditional remedy -- but that doesn't mean that the fact that tons of people would keep buying $50 deoderant sticks turns it into a legitimate business practice. Viability =/= legitimacy.


Don't stray into the Political arena, that is not this topic (Though I understand what you meant). Your argument that Cdude is taking away a bucket of water from the people on one side of Flatlake to give to the people on the other side is still incorrect. Cdude did not go out of his way to buy a second Wii, he saw it and decided to invest in it for a profit. In your analogy he saw a small puddle next to the lake and and decided to take it. The other problem with your argument is now that the people of Flatland no longer need to drink the water, and they only use it for watering their lawn, people now must decide if they want to water their yard today. If they don't then they yard may get a little brown, but they must decide if they want to keep the yard green by watering it or letting it start to wither. Since the supply of the lake is now not meeting demand, people who want to keep their yards green will pay (more) for it. Some people like green yards what can we say? Anyways if he has a bucket of water and some people will already not have water for their yards today, shouldn't the bucket of water go to the highest bidder? I will agree that when you are dealing with a monopoly the rules change. However if there is room in the market for small businesses or entrepenuers then they will exist. Cdude is not however operating as a monopoly. He is acting as a holding service.

 

@ TheBigFatJ:

Being a nice person isn't really relevant  to my point. He isn't creating some product, this is true, but how are any retail chain doing anything different from him, expect they are bound to rules saying they can't raise a price like he can. He IS however creating a service for people who would otherwise be inconvenienced by standing in line or hoping to find a Wii at his local Wal-Mart. The service is worth something.



I want my WHOLE paycheck! I support the Fair Tax!

http://www.fairtax.org/

NJ5 said:
 

I think twesterm's point is that in terms of "helping", he's helping someone and unhelping someone else at the same time (the person who would pick up the Wii from the store if cdude didn't). So those factors either cancel out, does cdude think that the person who has access to Ebay has more right to the Wii than the other person, who might not have more than $250 to spend?

Personally, I think that the person who was going to the store but has potentially less money, is the one who should get the console.

 


I don't think cdude ever claimed he was helping anyone.  However, since he is helping, I said he is helping.  He is not unhelping anyone.  For you see, no one has a right to a Wii.  A Wii is not like clean air or something.  It is a luxury good that people may purchase at the market rate.  That market rate may vary, depending on market conditions.

Please people, read a book on economics.  I have a recommendation in my profile.



currently playing: Desktop Tower Defense (PC), Puzzle Quest (DS), Trauma Center New Blood (Wii), Guitar Hero III (Wii), Ghost Squad (Wii), Actraiser (SNES), Donkey Kong County (SNES), The Legend of Zelda (NES), Kirby's Adventure (NES)

will play next: Paper Mario (N64), Golden Axe II (Sega), NiGHTS (Wii)

 

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