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Forums - Gaming - Nintendo’s true competitor (Malstrom)

yushire on 26 October 2009
puffy said:
yushire said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
This was a really good article. He let some of his biases become too apparent, particularly when saying you feel like an idiot jumping on a platform in 3-D Mario, but not in 2-D Mario.

But he's right on the money with this article. The Atari 2600 and NES really need to be looked at by every game developer for several reasons. EVERYBODY knows what Frogger, Pitfall, Pac-Man, Space Invaders, and Donkey Kong are. Everybody. Now only nerds know about new huge games like Uncharted. Games have come a long way since then, but we lost a lot of gamers along the way. I know several people who stopped playing games when they went 3-D, because they thought they were too clumsy, too ugly, and had really bad controls for moving your character and the camera at the same time.

@yushire, you don't need DLC to save gaming. What do you mean by that? DLC is a crutch for sloppy development, or nickel-and-diming. The only good DLC is free, and when it's not unlocking something already on the disc, and isn't making a gap between rich lazy gamers and broke gamers who can't buy their way to the top.

 

 

I want to make a sequel to the NEw world that Malstrom made earlier:

 

And as the core gaming imploded the blue ocean washed the core the old world away. Most of the gaming companies relies on blockbuster titles dont care about the long term sales and milking the established franchise to death.

 

Nintendo: and now we are in the new world we change the face of gaming now we're not in the old world that emmersive---- OH! Someone's raises a hand what your question will be?

 

Malstrom: What about the old long time fans. The retro gamers. The people thats stand by you since the NEs days?

 

Nintendo: What are you talking about? I thought these type of gamers are extinct since the N64 era. Gamers dont care for simple type of games anymore.

 

Malstrom: But did the Wii invented to cater to these type of gamers? The ones that----

 

Nintendo: I dont want to talk to you anymore. We profit to the casuals and family. The retro gamers the core gamers in the past left us long time ago since the PSX. And for bigger announcement we would venture to digital distribution as DLC and UGC as a new content to this new world. With this----

 

Malstrom: THATS ABSURD! Thats not what the Wii and the new generation's philosophy should be! Why would we buy a game thats digital! SHOULD YOU be the ones that should make us new content in every game you make?!!

 

Nintendo: Guard seize him! he should drown in blue ocean and die with the rest of core gamers in the old world.

 

 

As you can see reality bites for malstrom. UGC and DLC have more benefits than we're perceived it to be. For one thing, you dont need to buy games with the same title only with different numbers anymore. Activision could just monopolized the music games and FPS industry with DLC but it blows up them on their faces with too many spinoffs and sequels. As for FPS same thing happened. And now because of their greediness they want to pay the core gamer 3 times as much as the original game just to play new maps and weapons. 

 

And still lemmings(the core gamers) will buy it anyway. Just look at PC gaming and just look at the sales WoW. The game only lived because of DLC and Blizzard profit on it very well. Its even worse than DLC because you need to pay monthly fee to play WoW.

 

Yushire, you don't listen to what Nintendo say do you? They've said repeatedly that the Wii was designed to appeal to people who no longer play video games and people or have never played. They've mentioned the term 'lapsed gamer' so many times it's not funny. Nintendo ARE wanting the NES gamers to buy a Wii, the gamers that have since left because gaming got too complicated.

These gamers don't want DLC, they don't want UGC. They want to buy a game, stick it in the machine and have fun straight away. You talk about WoW, that's 10 million subscribers. Should Nintendo be focused on a group that consists of 10 million? Or should they perhaps focus on the NES audience of 60 million? Should they focus on the Wii Fit audience of 20 million? The PS2 audience of 140 million? PS2 didn't have DLC, PS3 does and it hasn't helped. That's not what the consumer wants. If DLC was THE defining feature of current gen consoles and was what consumers wanted then the HD consoles should have absolutely creamed the Wii.

 

OT: I'm not sure I agree with Malstrom here. The most important thing that the NES had was variety. I think what Nintendo lacks right now when compared to the NES is variety, not certain games competing with older games. Nintendo have shown that having games not possible on previous generations of console (such as Wii Fit) brings in the completely new consumers to gaming. Wii Vitality Sensor will continue that trend. Having sequels to the top selling GameCube titles obviously secured the 24 or so million GameCube users into buying a Wii - or at least that was the idea and the core gamer outside of that hasn't been catered to specifically. What's the point though? You have two competitors that cater to this group specifically, why put in the resources when you know they cannot be beaten?

 

 

 

LOOOOL... And yeah I intended to post lol like that. So wheres this elusive retro core gamer that Ninty wants to capture? I think theyre hiding in the bushes and we need a special capture tool to catch it. His views are out of this world no wonder many people even in the internet dont want to discuss him. his opinions are opinionated at best. If theres a retro gamer market and its bigger than the casual and core market(whih likes online multiplayer, DLC and UGC) then its news right now.

 

The only reason why Nintendo says lapsed gamer because thats what the term supposed to be. LAPSED GAMER. Im also a retro gamer and I want retro style gaming too. And what do you know? Theres wiiware and VC service to satisfy our gaming needs. But wait, did it done already in XBLA and PSN? EXACTLY...

 

If theres really this elusive and rare retro gamer thats why they play the Wii show it to me. If not, then I call his views about it as opinionated at best.



end of core gaming days prediction:

 

E3 2006-The beginning of the end. Wii introduced

 

E3 2008- Armageddon. Wii motion plus introduced. Wii Music. Reggie says Animal crossing was a core game. Massive disappointment. many Wii core gamers selling their Wii.

 

E3 2010- Tape runs out

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2009/ICG_Tape_runs_out.jpg

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Farmageddon on 26 October 2009

Yeah, I'm on the side that thinks he's wrong, or at least mainly wrong.

 

I mean, he shows that chart and says "This collapse shown above is not due entirely to “less accessibility” or “going away from the basics of gaming”. From someone who participated in this ‘bleed’, it is clear to me that a big reason why is that Nintendo refused to compete with its past."

If that's so, then why did those gamers go to the competition? Did the competition have these games? Truth is, as the whole industry went away from some of those classic designs, it was expanding. Maybe people left Nintendo, but they clearly went somewhere else. Somewhere else where there was no catering to the things he claims the lack of is alienating players.

So yeah, of course the effect he describes exists. It's just so much far from being as big as he makes it seem. I think he's projecting his personal experience on the entire industry and suspect that's all he does all the time.



scruffybunny on 26 October 2009

Quote : "We’ll see if Nintendo is interested in slaying their ultimate competitor: their own shadow."

Man, this guy is pretencious.




Galaki on 26 October 2009

Can someone sum that up in 2 words?



Pre-order limited edition Blue Slime Condoms

Avinash_Tyagi on 26 October 2009
Zlejedi said:
This article is build on the false impression than people have been left by gaming (which he tries to prove by showing shrinking nintendo consoles sales).
Well that's cool and all but the small problem here is that there have been steady growth in total number of machines sold over generations while Nintendo was losing market share.


Population growth, expansion into Others (Pal Markets, EU, Asia, Australia)

 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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Avinash_Tyagi on 26 October 2009
Farmageddon said:

Yeah, I'm on the side that thinks he's wrong, or at least mainly wrong.

 

I mean, he shows that chart and says "This collapse shown above is not due entirely to “less accessibility” or “going away from the basics of gaming”. From someone who participated in this ‘bleed’, it is clear to me that a big reason why is that Nintendo refused to compete with its past."

If that's so, then why did those gamers go to the competition? Did the competition have these games? Truth is, as the whole industry went away from some of those classic designs, it was expanding. Maybe people left Nintendo, but they clearly went somewhere else. Somewhere else where there was no catering to the things he claims the lack of is alienating players.

So yeah, of course the effect he describes exists. It's just so much far from being as big as he makes it seem. I think he's projecting his personal experience on the entire industry and suspect that's all he does all the time.


It was entering new markets and taking advantage of a larger population in the world, it wasn't expanding outside of that, in fact in many ways it was contracting, towards the core audience

 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

scruffybunny on 26 October 2009
Galaki said:
Can someone sum that up in 2 words?

He said "change bad!"




puffy on 26 October 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Zlejedi said:
This article is build on the false impression than people have been left by gaming (which he tries to prove by showing shrinking nintendo consoles sales).
Well that's cool and all but the small problem here is that there have been steady growth in total number of machines sold over generations while Nintendo was losing market share.

Population growth, expansion into Others (Pal Markets, EU, Asia, Australia)

Please don't lump Australia into gaming expansion, we've always had consoles.  You're right though.



 

forest-spirit on 26 October 2009

Yes, I think he's atleast partially right when it comes to competing with the past, and many gamers compare new games with older games they've played in the past. I know I do, and that's why I've been quite disappointed in the RPG offerings of this and the last gen. I compare newer RPG's to the ones I played on Snes and PS1.

 

I don't know if the solution is even close to being as simple as what Malstrom describes. How about games becoming less user friendly and the pick up and play of older games disappearing. The transition between 2D and 3D may have been to much for some gamers; gameplay changed, you often had to control the camera and many 3D games were really ugly.

I think there are many reasons why the Snes sold less than Nes. Some of the new gamers that the Nes attracted may have quit gaming, Snes actually had to compete with Nes in the beginning and Mega Drive was an important competitor as well. Nintendo probably had a problem with picking up new gamers, and that situation wouldn't change until the Wii.

With the N64, Nintendo were the last one to release their console, and it didn't had CD's like the others. Sony's Playstation succeded in attracting the mainstream market, and because of the not very developer friendly N64, Nintendo lost much of their third party support.

Gamecube failed to win back the third party support and they also lost the powerhouse that were Rare. Most gamers that bought a Gamecube probably did so because of Nintendo's own games. Most third-party games were multi-plat and PS2 had a much bigger market share and Xbox offered more power.

 

Today I would say that Nintendo are kinda in the same position as they were with Nes. They have a huge success named Wii, but they have to figure out how to stay at the top and not let the competition take over once again.



Mr Khan on 26 October 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Zlejedi said:
This article is build on the false impression than people have been left by gaming (which he tries to prove by showing shrinking nintendo consoles sales).
Well that's cool and all but the small problem here is that there have been steady growth in total number of machines sold over generations while Nintendo was losing market share.

Population growth, expansion into Others (Pal Markets, EU, Asia, Australia)

Also household penetration rate. Part of the reason console sales went up was due to multiplatform (or just multiconsole) ownership per household. Fewer households overall (as a percentage of total households) had them, even though the numbers steadily grew.

 

On topic: I kinda like this one. It highlights my point about Nintendo going back to basics, in a good way. Basically, to restore market dominance, they need to be able to do what they did in the past, though differently applied for the modern day.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.