Oh I guess i haven't seen Drago Ball without the Z or GT....

To everyone who has turned this thread into a platform to debate about what constitutes a 'good' novel/author and now 'good animation', you should first look at your own judging standards. I mean look at the current discussion going on. Calling Dragon Ball a 'kids show' and trying to use it as the primary example of all Anime. Mostly likely you're using the dubbed version as well, which is even less of a good example.

As I said before, Dragon Ball is much more than just 'DBZ'. Akira Toriyama didn't write it to sell 'action figures and other merc'. He's not a toy manufacturer like Bandai (who created Gundam to do just that). He is a manga artist. And at the time he started Dragon Ball (1984), the Shonen genre was nowhere near what it was today. He MADE it was it is today. All the manga/shows like Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, etc used his Manga as inspiration and a formula to make theirs (their creators proudly admit it). The branding and merchandise came much later, when his product had been successful (and corporations wanted to make more money).

And really now, the way you guys go on, claiming the show is 'for kids' and 'has no story'. What exactly do you think American animation is for? Don't tell me you think stuff like Avatar, Secret Saturdays or Ben Force has 'superior storytelling' than the Anime out there? And you better believe these shows are for kids. You know what American animation isn't for kids? Crap like Family Guy, American Dad, Metalocalypse, Squidbillies, Home Movies and the all new (and completely pointless) Titan Maximum. If you want to claim shows are better because they aim their content towards your 'adult sensibilities', then go ahead and watch Adult Swim. There's a grand total of 2 good shows on there.

The remainder of American animation? Is either for kids or for all audiences. And there's not much of it. Anime just outnumbers American Animation 1000:1 in production, with dozens of new series coming out each season and numerous movies a year. So its only fitting that some of Anime will turn out good over time. Blame Disney relying on Pixar and Dreamworks pumping out 8-10 new CGI monstrosities a year on this.

Kenryoku I was making a point in defense of Dragon Ball. Don't go picking a side in this stupid 'East vs. West' dichotomy crap, it's not goingn to end well for anyone involved.

I agree, animation these days is fucking horrible. Western animation is worse ( I don't even know how they fuckingpulled it off) than even most japanese animatino these days. What happened to om and Jerry or Dexter's Lab and stuff like that? Now I only have to look forward to Mandy in Bily and Mandy.... Also Robot Chicken.

I'd just like to make a point that I'm not 'choosing a side'.  I'm trying to point out that people are once again trying to use Anime as some kind of example of inferior storytelling with the standard 'Naruto, Bleach, DBZ' defense.  And I stepped up to show how both Dragon Ball isn't an inferior story and in many ways Anime is doing much better than American animation.

Don't take it as me choosing sides.  I like many American animated shows, from The Spimsons to Venture Brothers to Fairly OddParents.  But its just a fact that there's more to Anime than just 3 shows and even the three people keep using as examples of 'weak' storytelling devices are better than the majority of American Animation out right now.

The post that originally mentioned Naruto, Bleach, and DBZ listed them as the three shows that proved why anime is better than traditional Western animation.

You may be able to guess that I've had experience with both and the disparaging of either tends to get my gourd, especially when it's extended to something along the lines of "western cartoons all sucks/western games don't have good stories" or "all anime is basically shonen/all Japanese games are basically shonen, except games".

I do the sam thing with comics too

Yes, I figured as much.  And I'm somewhat guilty of doing the same thing here.

Games like Morrowind, Oblivion, Uncharted 1 & 2, MGS, The Witcher, The Legend of Zelda, Vampire the Masquerade:Blood lines, Batman AA etc..have great stories IMO. Can say I really care what one developer thinks.

Games should have stories for the real gems that can occur.

If there is a pile of shit festering in your backyard but you never go there, just cover it up and spray it with air freshener so it's like it doesn't exist.

Ignoring the rotting piles of crap usually found populating most of earth is fine as long as there are good pieces of crap. Ten tons of shit is worth one diamond.

/too many metaphors

Apparently, he's never even heard about Silent Hill, either (the greatest story in the history of videogames). He must just b thinking of halo.