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Forums - Gaming Discussion - It is time for Shigeru Miyamoto to retire (Malstrom)

Avinash_Tyagi on 17 October 2009
makingmusic476 said:
And to reiterate what I said in the comments of the news article on this, Malstrom is completely missing the point of UGC. He's looking at the failures of UGC and missing the successes, like LBP or Warcraft III, and he's completely overlooking why the latter succeed. To copy & paste my comment from before (I'm a lazy son of a bitch, what can I say):

People need to understand that what makes LBP a success is the ability to SHARE content. You don't simply create content. You can easily play other peoples content, so the few people that truly enjoy creating content (and are good at it) keep guys like me supplied with a never ending stream of fun levels to play. A majority of LBP's players aren't there to create content. They're there to enjoy the plethora of created content floating around.

This is the key to UGC. Not everyone wants to create stuff. In fact, it's probably a minority that do. However, having this UGC made available to the masses in an easy to access manner is what keeps people coming back time and time again, and it is why LBP and Youtube are so successful. Much like how the custom maps in Age of Mythology and Warcraft III (DotA, Mythodea, Cat & Mouse) are often the most played maps, and they are what keep people coming back to these games for years and years and years.


  LBP was a success? Hmmmm... *compares Mario and LBP sales*



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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makingmusic476 on 17 October 2009
Onyxmeth said:
makingmusic476 said:
And to reiterate what I said in the comments of the news article on this, Malstrom is completely missing the point of UGC. He's looking at the failures of UGC and missing the successes, like LBP or Warcraft III, and he's completely overlooking why the latter succeed. To copy & paste my comment from before (I'm a lazy son of a bitch, what can I say):

People need to understand that what makes LBP a success is the ability to SHARE content. You don't simply create content. You can easily play other peoples content, so the few people that truly enjoy creating content (and are good at it) keep guys like me supplied with a never ending stream of fun levels to play. A majority of LBP's players aren't there to create content. They're there to enjoy the plethora of created content floating around.

This is the key to UGC. Not everyone wants to create stuff. In fact, it's probably a minority that do. However, having this UGC made available to the masses in an easy to access manner is what keeps people coming back time and time again, and it is why LBP and Youtube are so successful. Much like how the custom maps in Age of Mythology and Warcraft III (DotA, Mythodea, Cat & Mouse) are often the most played maps, and they are what keep people coming back to these games for years and years and years.

Why would LBP be the success? Isn't it relatively on par with Wii Music saleswise? The way Malstrom thinks is that the large evergreen titles that go on to sell countless millions are the successes. This is where he thinks UGC centered titles don't belong. Is a UGC title going to anchor a fall lineup for Nintendo or Sony? Wii Music and LBP didn't do a good job of it. I think Malstrom's always on the big picture, and I'm sure if some third parties were making games like Wii Music and LBP and getting some moderate success on them, he wouldn't care. His attention is on the decisions of the big three and to be honest Miyamoto does seem to have his head wrapped around the idea of UGC a little more than is comfortable if you're someone that is against the idea, like Malstrom is.

Edit: I missed your point.  From Sony and Microsoft's perspective, and game like LBP sold just fine, and I don't see why it wouldn't be enough to anchor a holiday line up in the future.  Just look at Uncharted 2's first week.  Will it be a system seller?  Unless it's making its first appearance on the ps4, likely not.  But it'll keep console owners happy, to be sure.

The successes you're describing are few and far between.  And I don't see why UGC might inhibit such titles, provided it is primarily an additional feature.  It is the gameplay that makes Super Mario sell like it does.  Adding an editor and levels accessible via the internet would only add to the normal story mode.

 

@avinashi: Comparing anything to Super Mario is unfair. 



scruffybunny on 17 October 2009

Miyamoto said its interesting that idea, and maybe, we'll see ... thats like all he said really.







Onyxmeth on 17 October 2009
makingmusic476 said:
Onyxmeth said:
makingmusic476 said:
And to reiterate what I said in the comments of the news article on this, Malstrom is completely missing the point of UGC. He's looking at the failures of UGC and missing the successes, like LBP or Warcraft III, and he's completely overlooking why the latter succeed. To copy & paste my comment from before (I'm a lazy son of a bitch, what can I say):

People need to understand that what makes LBP a success is the ability to SHARE content. You don't simply create content. You can easily play other peoples content, so the few people that truly enjoy creating content (and are good at it) keep guys like me supplied with a never ending stream of fun levels to play. A majority of LBP's players aren't there to create content. They're there to enjoy the plethora of created content floating around.

This is the key to UGC. Not everyone wants to create stuff. In fact, it's probably a minority that do. However, having this UGC made available to the masses in an easy to access manner is what keeps people coming back time and time again, and it is why LBP and Youtube are so successful. Much like how the custom maps in Age of Mythology and Warcraft III (DotA, Mythodea, Cat & Mouse) are often the most played maps, and they are what keep people coming back to these games for years and years and years.

Why would LBP be the success? Isn't it relatively on par with Wii Music saleswise? The way Malstrom thinks is that the large evergreen titles that go on to sell countless millions are the successes. This is where he thinks UGC centered titles don't belong. Is a UGC title going to anchor a fall lineup for Nintendo or Sony? Wii Music and LBP didn't do a good job of it. I think Malstrom's always on the big picture, and I'm sure if some third parties were making games like Wii Music and LBP and getting some moderate success on them, he wouldn't care. His attention is on the decisions of the big three and to be honest Miyamoto does seem to have his head wrapped around the idea of UGC a little more than is comfortable if you're someone that is against the idea, like Malstrom is.

LBP is selling great for new IP.  For a game with "Wii" in the title that was heavily marketed last Fall (there were ads playing on EVERY tv in Best Buy at times), it didn't do so hot. 

The fact that LBP has much better legs out of the two (despite Wii games often being known for their legs), and will likely pass up Wii Music in total sales soon shows that part of Wii Music's success was due to heavy marketing rather than the quality of the game.  It was frontloaded, garnering a majority of its sales last holiday season during a period of heavy marketing and riding partly on name recognition.  LBP was not, and it started outselling Wii Music on a regular basis as early as the 22nd week after each debuted.

Just looking at how much either game is talked about (or played) today, a year after release, shows which game was more successful.  LBP should end up over 3 million units in the end, which is better than numerous other console games this gen.  Wii Music will never get there, despite having the advantage of a far stronger initial holiday season.

@avinashi: Comparing anything to Super Mario is unfair. 

I really don't like the phrase "selling great for a new IP". That's a copout. Plenty of new IPs have sold better than LBP.

The point is that there is not a known expanded audience market for something like LBP, or Wii Music, or anything else primarily centered around UGC. Malstrom doesn't care that LBP can sell 2-3 million when games that have great content created by developers can sell 10+ million. UGC enabled games are things that forumgoers like us love. We are not the greater market though.



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



makingmusic476 on 17 October 2009

Oops. Edited my post before seeing yours.



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Kasz216 on 17 October 2009
Onyxmeth said:
makingmusic476 said:
Onyxmeth said:
makingmusic476 said:
And to reiterate what I said in the comments of the news article on this, Malstrom is completely missing the point of UGC. He's looking at the failures of UGC and missing the successes, like LBP or Warcraft III, and he's completely overlooking why the latter succeed. To copy & paste my comment from before (I'm a lazy son of a bitch, what can I say):

People need to understand that what makes LBP a success is the ability to SHARE content. You don't simply create content. You can easily play other peoples content, so the few people that truly enjoy creating content (and are good at it) keep guys like me supplied with a never ending stream of fun levels to play. A majority of LBP's players aren't there to create content. They're there to enjoy the plethora of created content floating around.

This is the key to UGC. Not everyone wants to create stuff. In fact, it's probably a minority that do. However, having this UGC made available to the masses in an easy to access manner is what keeps people coming back time and time again, and it is why LBP and Youtube are so successful. Much like how the custom maps in Age of Mythology and Warcraft III (DotA, Mythodea, Cat & Mouse) are often the most played maps, and they are what keep people coming back to these games for years and years and years.

Why would LBP be the success? Isn't it relatively on par with Wii Music saleswise? The way Malstrom thinks is that the large evergreen titles that go on to sell countless millions are the successes. This is where he thinks UGC centered titles don't belong. Is a UGC title going to anchor a fall lineup for Nintendo or Sony? Wii Music and LBP didn't do a good job of it. I think Malstrom's always on the big picture, and I'm sure if some third parties were making games like Wii Music and LBP and getting some moderate success on them, he wouldn't care. His attention is on the decisions of the big three and to be honest Miyamoto does seem to have his head wrapped around the idea of UGC a little more than is comfortable if you're someone that is against the idea, like Malstrom is.

LBP is selling great for new IP.  For a game with "Wii" in the title that was heavily marketed last Fall (there were ads playing on EVERY tv in Best Buy at times), it didn't do so hot. 

The fact that LBP has much better legs out of the two (despite Wii games often being known for their legs), and will likely pass up Wii Music in total sales soon shows that part of Wii Music's success was due to heavy marketing rather than the quality of the game.  It was frontloaded, garnering a majority of its sales last holiday season during a period of heavy marketing and riding partly on name recognition.  LBP was not, and it started outselling Wii Music on a regular basis as early as the 22nd week after each debuted.

Just looking at how much either game is talked about (or played) today, a year after release, shows which game was more successful.  LBP should end up over 3 million units in the end, which is better than numerous other console games this gen.  Wii Music will never get there, despite having the advantage of a far stronger initial holiday season.

@avinashi: Comparing anything to Super Mario is unfair. 

I really don't like the phrase "selling great for a new IP". That's a copout. Plenty of new IPs have sold better than LBP.

The point is that there is not a known expanded audience market for something like LBP, or Wii Music, or anything else primarily centered around UGC. Malstrom doesn't care that LBP can sell 2-3 million when games that have great content created by developers can sell 10+ million. UGC enabled games are things that forumgoers like us love. We are not the greater market though.

Plus LBP totally had more advertising then Wii Music.



makingmusic476 on 17 October 2009

^ If I recall, there were advertisements playing for Wii Music on the TV reels at Best Buy. Basically 50+ TVs were broadcasting Wii Music ads to everyone in the store every few minutes. You can't really beat that.

I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly, but there's always a chance I could be wrong.  A google search is turning up nothing on the matter.



Godot on 17 October 2009
Kasz216 said:
Onyxmeth said:
makingmusic476 said:
Onyxmeth said:
makingmusic476 said:
And to reiterate what I said in the comments of the news article on this, Malstrom is completely missing the point of UGC. He's looking at the failures of UGC and missing the successes, like LBP or Warcraft III, and he's completely overlooking why the latter succeed. To copy & paste my comment from before (I'm a lazy son of a bitch, what can I say):

People need to understand that what makes LBP a success is the ability to SHARE content. You don't simply create content. You can easily play other peoples content, so the few people that truly enjoy creating content (and are good at it) keep guys like me supplied with a never ending stream of fun levels to play. A majority of LBP's players aren't there to create content. They're there to enjoy the plethora of created content floating around.

This is the key to UGC. Not everyone wants to create stuff. In fact, it's probably a minority that do. However, having this UGC made available to the masses in an easy to access manner is what keeps people coming back time and time again, and it is why LBP and Youtube are so successful. Much like how the custom maps in Age of Mythology and Warcraft III (DotA, Mythodea, Cat & Mouse) are often the most played maps, and they are what keep people coming back to these games for years and years and years.

Why would LBP be the success? Isn't it relatively on par with Wii Music saleswise? The way Malstrom thinks is that the large evergreen titles that go on to sell countless millions are the successes. This is where he thinks UGC centered titles don't belong. Is a UGC title going to anchor a fall lineup for Nintendo or Sony? Wii Music and LBP didn't do a good job of it. I think Malstrom's always on the big picture, and I'm sure if some third parties were making games like Wii Music and LBP and getting some moderate success on them, he wouldn't care. His attention is on the decisions of the big three and to be honest Miyamoto does seem to have his head wrapped around the idea of UGC a little more than is comfortable if you're someone that is against the idea, like Malstrom is.

LBP is selling great for new IP.  For a game with "Wii" in the title that was heavily marketed last Fall (there were ads playing on EVERY tv in Best Buy at times), it didn't do so hot. 

The fact that LBP has much better legs out of the two (despite Wii games often being known for their legs), and will likely pass up Wii Music in total sales soon shows that part of Wii Music's success was due to heavy marketing rather than the quality of the game.  It was frontloaded, garnering a majority of its sales last holiday season during a period of heavy marketing and riding partly on name recognition.  LBP was not, and it started outselling Wii Music on a regular basis as early as the 22nd week after each debuted.

Just looking at how much either game is talked about (or played) today, a year after release, shows which game was more successful.  LBP should end up over 3 million units in the end, which is better than numerous other console games this gen.  Wii Music will never get there, despite having the advantage of a far stronger initial holiday season.

@avinashi: Comparing anything to Super Mario is unfair. 

I really don't like the phrase "selling great for a new IP". That's a copout. Plenty of new IPs have sold better than LBP.

The point is that there is not a known expanded audience market for something like LBP, or Wii Music, or anything else primarily centered around UGC. Malstrom doesn't care that LBP can sell 2-3 million when games that have great content created by developers can sell 10+ million. UGC enabled games are things that forumgoers like us love. We are not the greater market though.

Plus LBP totally had more advertising then Wii Music.

Actually, both games are about equally successful. Malstrom is mostly right about the USG stuff but his comments about Miyamoto being a liability is a bit stupid. I think he's missing the real reason why the Wii lost momentum: the lack of significant releases by Nintendo (the only significant release since Wii Fit has been Wii Sports resort).



How many cups of darkness have I drank over the years? Even I don't know...

 

Kasz216 on 17 October 2009
makingmusic476 said:

^ If I recall, there were advertisements playing for Wii Music on the TV reels at Best Buy. Basically 50+ TVs were broadcasting Wii Music ads to everyone in the store every few minutes. You can't really beat that.

I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly, but there's always a chance I could be wrong.  A google serach is turning up nothing on the matter.

Could be a regional thing.  I don't think i've ever even seen a Wii music commercial.



Onyxmeth on 17 October 2009
makingmusic476 said:

^ If I recall, there were advertisements playing for Wii Music on the TV reels at Best Buy. Basically 50+ TVs were broadcasting Wii Music ads to everyone in the store every few minutes. You can't really beat that.

I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly, but there's always a chance I could be wrong.  A google search is turning up nothing on the matter.

I can vouch for this. I always shop at Target and they advertised there for a good month on the HD TVs around December I think into January.



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.