I'm not saying that you cant get out of the slums, I'm saying that starting in the slums makes it harder.  Obviosly, a child who wants to succeed in life who lives in the slums with violence and horrible schools has an disadvantage compared to a child whose rich parents sent him to private school.  Obviosly, if you work hard you can get yourself out of that situation, but you have to work harder than someone born into a life of privelage.

i completely understand what you guys are saying, i guess i have a naive way of looking at the world >.

Thank god I'm not-

Oh wait.

*is sad*

trashleg said: i completely understand what you guys are saying, i guess i have a naive way of looking at the world >.< i haven't payed taxes yet cos i've always been in full-time education, but for instance our health system is completely free, and i know that i WILL be using it at some point.. even the healthcare i've received so far in my life- all the appointments, consultations, treatments etc - must have added up. add to that the fact that i get my £2000/year tuition fees covered and a bursary for living costs while im at uni (because the view is that a young person shouldnt be excluded from life-bettering opportunities such as a degree based on their parents mistakes/misfortunes/sob stories etc). so although i know its easy for me to say this now, i dont think i would even have the right to bitch about my taxes lol xD i do appreciate that its different in other countries, so i understand what all you guys are saying 100%

Just remember, you get what you pay for. To quote The Moon Is a Harsh Misteress 'There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch'.

Once out of school, if you make 37,400 pounds a year, and have a normal career span (30 yrs), you will have paid the govement 448,800 pounds in federal taxes. Not to mention any sort of additional taxes such as council taxes. Do you think your healthcare and schooling were worth almost half a million pounds you'dpay out?

That's kind of the argument tax payers look at. I'm glad your seeing our way. Again, it's something you can only really see through the veil when your actually there, paying taxes. Of course, no one wants, or likes, to pay taxes, but when we do, we want to make sure that it goes towards valid programs.

In America, we have some horribly inefficient programs such as Social Security - , a 8.0% Tax on income taken from every non-governmental, non-self employed person. The pension program acrues interest at 1.3% APY. For comparison, my savings account accrues at 2.2% APY, and a government pension plan (such as the state workers OPERS in Ohio) accrues at 10% on average.

welfare cash "mis-use": make welfare a voucher based benefit rather than money, i.e you get vouchers for food and clothing rather than cash, obviously you have to go into much more detail than just that, but I think you get my point

credit cards: simple again, just make them only available to people who can afford them (checks, if you cant pay back any debt you may run up on them, the bank shouldnt give you that card)

Maybe videogames or tvs are more important to them than food?

well you are right the unemployment should spent their money on useful thing specially when they have kids but if they spent on tv well let them screw themeselves.

wow thats crazy :\

but my schooling, by the end of it, will have cost... about 8k, plus 16k so thats like 32k just for 2 years of college and 4 years of uni (even tho im only in my 2nd year at uni)

but then there's things like primary/secondary school education that im gonna expect to be free if and when the time ever comes for me to have kids, and the police force and emergency services staff who need to be paid... i know that half a million is a hell of a lot of money, and i will probably feel very bitter and angry within a few years of paying any of these taxes, but for now i can still say that as long as i have enough, money isnt everything. its not what you've got, its what you do with it.. which, funnily enough, ties in perfectly to this thread lol.

my brain hurts. on the one hand i think "i dont mind too much" but on the other i know the whole thing's a sham. meep.

college is expensive.

you are talking income tax only. You still haven't included sales tax, property (and school) tax, and tax for anything else you might have to pay for. My property tax is going to be 5k/year. 3k of which is for elementary/high school even if I never have a child, or if I send him to private school. The town school taxes are so high in NY that the NY state government decided they would start the STAR program which essentially is a state rebate on your local town taxes. Obviously something is really screwed up. Rather than lower taxes, we now have to pay people who manage our rebate on our tax because it is too high.