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Forums - General - I believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ -Obama agreement thread

ManusJustus said:
highwaystar101 said:
I'm happy that politicians in Britain don't have to fake a religious view to sway voters like Obama.

Do you have any sources to back that up?  I've always wondered if Obama was irreligious, especially with his mother being an athiest, but I've never come across anything to back that up.

I will give this as a source. It is a list of atheist politicians and if you notice a lot of them are British politicians, including...

  • Nick Clegg - Leader of the liberal democrats
  • Ken Livingstone - Mayor of London
  • David Miliband - Foreign secretary
  • Michael Portillo - Known for just about everything

As well as tonnes of others British politicians who are atheist or agnostic, but I don't have time to list them right now. I will find a better link at some point for you too.

As for Barack Obama the link I gave had his father listed as an atheist ex-muslim and I believe his mother was an atheist.



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@ Highwaystar101

yeah, I agree its not so much of an issue here, though, one has to mention that all our Prime Ministers have been christians...

also, as should be obvious to those who read my posts in the past, I believe in seperation of church and state, im an Atheist



SciFiBoy said:
@ Highwaystar101

yeah, I agree its not so much of an issue here, though, one has to mention that all our Prime Ministers have been christians...

also, as should be obvious to those who read my posts in the past, I believe in seperation of church and state, im an Atheist

All your prime ministers kinda have to be Christian... hell Church of Egnland Christian for that matter.

Look at Tony Blair.  He didn't feel he could convert to being a Catholic until after he left office!

What with the appointing of bishops and all.  Why the government does that i don't know.

 



Kasz216 said:
SciFiBoy said:
@ Highwaystar101

yeah, I agree its not so much of an issue here, though, one has to mention that all our Prime Ministers have been christians...

also, as should be obvious to those who read my posts in the past, I believe in seperation of church and state, im an Atheist

All your prime ministers kinda have to be Christian... hell Church of Egnland Christian for that matter.

Look at Tony Blair.  He didn't feel he could convert to being a Catholic until after he left office!

What with the appointing of bishops and all.  Why the government does that i don't know.

 

so far as im aware, they dont have to be, but yeah, I get what youre saying, personally I disagree completley with the bishops being in the house of Lords (I think the lords should be fully or almost fully elected)



SciFiBoy said:
Kasz216 said:
SciFiBoy said:
@ Highwaystar101

yeah, I agree its not so much of an issue here, though, one has to mention that all our Prime Ministers have been christians...

also, as should be obvious to those who read my posts in the past, I believe in seperation of church and state, im an Atheist

All your prime ministers kinda have to be Christian... hell Church of Egnland Christian for that matter.

Look at Tony Blair.  He didn't feel he could convert to being a Catholic until after he left office!

What with the appointing of bishops and all.  Why the government does that i don't know.

 

so far as im aware, they dont have to be, but yeah, I get what youre saying, personally I disagree completley with the bishops being in the house of Lords (I think the lords should be fully or almost fully elected)

Bishops are in the House of Lords too?  I was reffering to the fact that the Prime Minister appoints bishops.

Or atleast did... come to think of it... I think Gordon Brown may have given that up.

Which is one positive thing you can say he did.

 

Prime Minister appoint archbishops... it's funny that we are more religious... yet we're the one with the church and state law.  While your state is very much a aprt of a church.  It's own private church no less.



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TheRealMafoo said:
ManusJustus said:

It makes sense to me that there are athiests politicians who claim Christianity for political gain, knowing that being an open athiest could be political suicide.

What? That would mean they are lying for there own personal gain.

Come on man, do you really think a politician would do that?


Nice one Mafoo! Can we get a rimshot over here?

OT: I agree and disagree. I am currently not a christian, but I was raised one, and I think that a lot of the values I have have to have been influenced by that. I think that religion has a place in affecting a person's personal values (because, let's face it, lots of parents suck at that part). BUT, it shouldn't color the political decisions that a person makes. I realize it's going to be nearly impossible to separate the two, but the president is supposed to be above and beyond the average person. BUT, it is possible to be moral and athiest at the same time, my brohter in law was brought up athiest and he is a very moral person, he would literally give you the shirt off of his back. Which is almost more impressive than a christian doing so, because there is no threat of judgement by jeebus if he doesn't.

How about. . . decent people for president forever!

 



Kasz216 said:

Actually it's 4%.

The 8% is being generous from a poll that had a different method of asking questions.

Do I believe politicans wouldn't lie to me?  Of course not.

Do I believe they'd lie about being atheists?  Not really, because they wouldn't be believable at it unless they spent at least as much time at it as a religious person.  Its ridiuclious how those evangelicals can "sniff" you out with all the random religious questions they ask... and you always end up at their stuff... even if your a democrat.

I mean hell... look at that debate he and McCain ahd with that "family values" guy that swore Obama in.  He had some hard hitting religious based questions.

I mean have you heard Obama's speeches?  If he's lieing about beign a Christian... he's had to put more work towards "faking" christian then most christians put towards actually being christian.  Guy uses mroe biblical refrences then an Alabamian preacher.

Actually, you are wrong about the athiest/agnostic statistics.  You either have an old source, you misunderstood your source, or you and/or your source is lying.

The most recent data puts American athiest/agnostics at 12%.

http://b27.cc.trincoll.edu/weblogs/AmericanReligionSurvey-ARIS/reports/ARIS_Report_2008.pdf

The CIA World Fact Book puts athiests at 4%, but makes no mention of agnostics.  It does, however, list unaffiliated at 12% and unspecified at 2.5%.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

Going by the CIA statistics, about 20% of Americans are well outside of mainstream religion, while we only have one person in Congress who is willing to be open about it.

As far as politicians and lying goes, I do not have a hard time believing that a politician could successfully tell a lie, even if it is about their religion.  I lied to my family and went to church for years as an athiest, and if I can do it I have no doubt that a professional liar could.



If i was going for President i would claim i would die for my religion, i go to church every week and pray on Tuesdays aswell as Sundays.

Anything that would sway the masses...



FootballFan said:
If i was going for President i would claim i would die for my religion, i go to church every week and pray on Tuesdays aswell as Sundays.

Anything that would sway the masses...

Or you could just be the god/prophet, that makes it a lot easier.



ye, good point.

Might have to try that at some time.