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Forums - General - If White Male Country Star interrupted a young black female singer

Craan on 17 September 2009

Yo Khuutra I know your posting a meme and Imma let you finish but teh cell was one of the best memes of all time!



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Khuutra on 17 September 2009

Shit

Beaten again



Sqrl on 17 September 2009
Rath said:
Sqrl said:
 

Yes your notation was part of the typical liberal race bait play:

Step 1)

 

 Point out the right's record of racism while ignoring the fact that both parties have a record of racism and that you are essentially playing the "my shit don't stink" party game.  In the event you are called on this trot out bastardized versions of history and if all else fails call the other person a racist!
Step 2) Play the "I don't want to take away from legitimate dissent" line.  Nobody who thinks about it for 2 seconds is really naive enough to believe that the goal of labeling some of these people as racists is anything other than to marganlize the entire group. But go ahead and say this part anyways, because most people won't give it that much thought, and either way you can claim that you're being reasonable while never actually addressing the legitimate concerns you claim to respect.

Pointing out that you don't want to marganlize legitimate complaints is part of the playbook...."Why...I don't know what yuo mean!  I'm not being unreasonable!!"

You can't be so naive to have not noticed that the only thing the left wants to talk about in regards to the protest is racism....can you?  I mean it is blatantly obvious they have no intention of discussing what they are actually protesting about ...you do see that....right?

 

@Step one. I don't really care about the party history of America. I care about the fact that some elements of the far right has a history of racism, the ultra-conservatives. I also know that some extreme elements of the far-left have a history of racism (ie. Black Panthers) but that still doesn't take away from what I have said.

@Step two. I think I've held multiple arguments on this forum about the legitimate concerns that you, Mafoo and others have about Obama. I don't see how you can claim that I never actually address the concerns. In fact in all those debates I don't think I ever bring up racism, I think the only time I have talked about racism against Obama is in topics about racism against Obama. (Oh and now that I think about it I may have mentioned it in some election topics too).

Edit: @Zucas. I never said that the far right was built upon racism. Don't put words into my mouth.

1) It absolutely takes way from what you said.  Your argument is that the right has a racist past and that undertones of that past are present in their dissent.  But the reality is that both parties have racist pasts and racial undertones are part of American politics in general (pretty much world politics as well).  The point being that you are taking a general truth about American politics and cherry picking it down to a specific subsection for the express purpose of marginalizing.

You say the marginalizing is only meant for those who are "like that" but the nebulous and non-specific condemnation is the rhetorical equivalent of an adult telling a child that there are sharks in the ocean just before he goes for a swim......His chances of being attacked are ridiculously small but now he is terrified of going in any part of the water and for no good reason.  The same way the adult would be a buffoon for not knowing that this is the effect it would have on the child, it is absurd for those making this racism argument to claim they don't want to unfairly marginalize legitimate dissent.  That is exactly what you are doing and, to be blunt,  you have to be blind not to see it.

2) I'll be honest...

I can't remember a single instance where you actually discussed their concerns directly...I of course remember discussions of protesters with members on the left provided that we were focusing on liberal talking points about how they were racists or about how they were a minority (ie discussions that marginalize them) but I can't remember you actually getting involved in a discussion about how Obama is spending 4x faster than any other president, which is an extremely common complaint by protesters.

I don't know maybe I've just missed it but I can't recall a single instance where the protesters have been brought up and racism hasn't been shrieked by at least one liberal in the thread until it was the only topic of discussion...

Even if I am completely wrong and those discussions have happened, the point remains the same.  You (and others of your view) still insist on pointing out the faults of a super-minority of  an undisclosed minuscule"ness" and with no particular examples of the types of racist arguments they've made...ahead of addressing the overwhelming super-majority's arguments.  To the point that it is your very first reaction to the mention of them to the exclusion of the "legitimate" claims of the non-racists you claim to not wish to impugn.
To Each Man, Responsibility
Rath on 17 September 2009

Do you willfully ignore the posts arguing actual politics then? Because there are a whole lot of them on this site and only a very small minority of the political posts pertain to racism in these protests. If you can only remember those posts then I don't really see any point in talking about any political issues with you any further as you clearly only see what you want to see anyway.



Sqrl on 17 September 2009
Rath said:
Do you willfully ignore the posts arguing actual politics then? Because there are a whole lot of them on this site and only a very small minority of the political posts pertain to racism in these protests. If you can only remember those posts then I don't really see any point in talking about any political issues with you any further as you clearly only see what you want to see anyway.

Yeah, well I suppose  you can react like this.... 

I was hoping you would at least try to link to an example of where the protestors were being talked about and you discussed their legitimate complaints and didn't engage in marganlizing them.

Since you started the line of questioning though, I would like to ask if you willfully ignored my explaination of how your comments are marganlizing legitimate dissent regardless of your intentions?  Seems conveniant that my most eloquent explaination of how you engage in marganlization elicits a "I'm not talking with YOU anymore!" reply.

PS - Doesn't avoiding the discussion lend wieght to my recollection of things?  I'm perfectly willing to accept the possibility I've missed some discussions, forgot some discussions, or am just plain wrong... but you can't expect me to give you credit for something I don't remember yuo doing just because you want the credit and won't talk to me if I don't give it to you.  If that was the standard then you should give me credit for that one time..you know..when I completely debunked liberalism and showed how it was a fallacy..you know...you remember right....?
To Each Man, Responsibility
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deathgod33 on 17 September 2009

kanye isn't racist, just stupid



 

 

 

 

famousringo on 17 September 2009
Sqrl said:
Rath said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Rath said:

Also yes, 'positive' racism in the black community gives him votes from there. Is that really a surprise?

There is no such thing as positive racism.

You are either racist, or your not. To look at any group of people, and think due to a race trait something is better or worse about a person, is equally bad.

 

EDIT: I just realized you might not be implying that it's a good thing. If that's the case, I apologize.

I wasn't implying it was a good thing. Also are you dropping the accusation that I was stereotyping the entire far right as racist?

 

@Sqrl. What was your point again? I seem to have missed it.

I kind of thought it was obvious really, but I don't mind being blunt.

Liberals have perfected the art of exploiting racial tension to reap political gain. 

It's true, the Republicans do have a few kinks to work out:

@ OP

I'm sure if Kanye West had been white, Obama would have called him a dumb honkey instead of a jackass.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

Rath on 17 September 2009
Sqrl said:

1) It absolutely takes way from what you said.  Your argument is that the right has a racist past and that undertones of that past are present in their dissent.  But the reality is that both parties have racist pasts and racial undertones are part of American politics in general (pretty much world politics as well).  The point being that you are taking a general truth about American politics and cherry picking it down to a specific subsection for the express purpose of marginalizing.

You say the marginalizing is only meant for those who are "like that" but the nebulous and non-specific condemnation is the rhetorical equivalent of an adult telling a child that there are sharks in the ocean just before he goes for a swim......His chances of being attacked are ridiculously small but now he is terrified of going in any part of the water and for no good reason.  The same way the adult would be a buffoon for not knowing that this is the effect it would have on the child, it is absurd for those making this racism argument to claim they don't want to unfairly marginalize legitimate dissent.  That is exactly what you are doing and, to be blunt,  you have to be blind not to see it.

So then the correct solution is for the world to ignore any racial undertones in politics rather than to attack them? To me it is clear that the more extreme edges of the protests do have racial undertones and I don't like it at all.

It reminds me of the situation in some climate change protests in Britain, there were people protesting against a new power plant but the protests also attracted violent anti-authority groups who attacked the police. I actually agreed entirely with the anti-power station people (I don't think building new coal plants is a spectacular idea) yet I strongly disagreed with the people attacking the police and felt they were damaging the actual message of the protests.

In my opinion you should be doing the same - agreeing with the people opposed to Obama's policies and being thoroughly annoyed at the people who are using the protests for their own racist agenda.

 

2) I'll be honest...

I can't remember a single instance where you actually discussed their concerns directly...I of course remember discussions of protesters with members on the left provided that we were focusing on liberal talking points about how they were racists or about how they were a minority (ie discussions that marginalize them) but I can't remember you actually getting involved in a discussion about how Obama is spending 4x faster than any other president, which is an extremely common complaint by protesters.

I would personally say Obama has had to take exceptional actions in extraordinary circumstances. I think his actions, along with those of leaders in Europe, have probably saved the world from a far greater crisis than this current recession. I can see why they would complain though, America does have a terrible defecit and currently its only getting worse.

I don't know maybe I've just missed it but I can't recall a single instance where the protesters have been brought up and racism hasn't been shrieked by at least one liberal in the thread until it was the only topic of discussion...

Even if I am completely wrong and those discussions have happened, the point remains the same.  You (and others of your view) still insist on pointing out the faults of a super-minority of  an undisclosed minuscule"ness" and with no particular examples of the types of racist arguments they've made...ahead of addressing the overwhelming super-majority's arguments.  To the point that it is your very first reaction to the mention of them to the exclusion of the "legitimate" claims of the non-racists you claim to not wish to impugn.

I have thoroughly talked about the real arguments of the people opposed to Obama's policies. I love such discussions and engage in them all the time, I'm actually thoroughly sick of talking about a few racist protesters and would much rather discuss the actual politics. I just don't think that flat out denial of any racism in these protests is the right way to go about it.

 

That is without a doubt going to be my last post on this thread. I'm really thoroughly sick of it.



Craan on 17 September 2009

Kanye West might just be retarded  http://www.cracked.com/blog/what-if-kanye-west-is-retarded/



heruamon on 17 September 2009

Kanye apologized to everybody...
EVERYBODY said he was wrong...
I'm not quite getting the purpose of this OP...Communist hater is just a plain ole hater...he represents alot of what has gone wrong with this country, and what will conttinue to plague the US into the future. Don't believe me...what 30 minutes of Fox News...You will not find a more negative and cynical bunch anywhere...Fox News, and most of its support feed off conflict and strife...the American people made a choice last November to steer clear from that brand of hatred. It's only going to get worst next November, when the republiccan lose more seats in congress, and it is going to gert down right dangerous in 2012 when Obama is re-elected...I wouldn't be surprised to see some nutjob from the right make an attempt on his life...let's not forget...these are the same folks who think it's perfectly okay for wackos to kill doctors that perform abortion...PROVEN FACT!



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder