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Forums - General - Former Pres. Jimmy Carter: Wilson comments 'based on racism'

Rath on 16 September 2009
Kasz216 said:

I don't see how saying Obama is lieing is racism.

Its extremely unusual and rude to interrupt a presidents address to congress. If he had said it at some other time there wouldn't be these allegations. Plus earlier in his career this guy was an aide to a segregationist politician and voted to fly the confederate flag in his home state.

I mean... illegal immigrants currently do benefit from public healthcare... so unless there are new reforms to kick them out of the healthcare programs i don't see how you could say he is telling the truth.

The new proposals actually wouldn't benefit anybody who was unregistered, so while it won't stop immigrants from using the emergency room (I don't believe) it will stop them using the public option or any of the other proposed changes.

Also claiming the reason people don't want universal healthcare is racism.... that's not going to fly with moderates.

I mean were people being racist against Bill Clinton as well?

He's claiming the vitriol that Obama is a dictator and a tyrant and all the Nazi symbology that has come out during these protests is because of something more than healthcare debate. It seems unlikely that these opinions are all based on his healthcare bill.

It's more that people would rather have the crappy system we have... then an equal crappy if not worse system that will cost more money.


Also he said that Obama should be treated with respect like the Queen of England... which.  I'd say the Prime Minister would be more appopriate...

which... what wilson did would be seen as very mild in the chambers of british government.

The Prime Minister is also the head of government but he is not the head of state. As such they are not equivalent offices. More respect is expected for a head of state in general.

 



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HappySqurriel on 16 September 2009
Rath said:
Kasz216 said:

I don't see how saying Obama is lieing is racism.

Its extremely unusual and rude to interrupt a presidents address to congress. If he had said it at some other time there wouldn't be these allegations. Plus earlier in his career this guy was an aide to a segregationist politician and voted to fly the confederate flag in his home state.

Every once in a while in all democracies individuals break with decorum in a rude way because of political affiliations, and this is the only time I have heard people accused of racism because of it; the more reasonable excuse was that Joe Wilson was being remarkably partisan.

Beyond that, Barack Obama has ties to ACORN which is becomming clear is a corrupt partisan organization, does that make Barack Obama corrupt and partisan?

I mean... illegal immigrants currently do benefit from public healthcare... so unless there are new reforms to kick them out of the healthcare programs i don't see how you could say he is telling the truth.

The new proposals actually wouldn't benefit anybody who was unregistered, so while it won't stop immigrants from using the emergency room (I don't believe) it will stop them using the public option or any of the other proposed changes.

A lot of concerns that the Republican members of Congress and conservatives in general have about illegal immigrants getting coverage is that they have proposed amendments that explicitly prevent illegal immigrants getting coverage  and they’re ‘non-starters’ with the Democrats in congress.

Also claiming the reason people don't want universal healthcare is racism.... that's not going to fly with moderates.

I mean were people being racist against Bill Clinton as well?

He's claiming the vitriol that Obama is a dictator and a tyrant and all the Nazi symbology that has come out during these protests is because of something more than healthcare debate. It seems unlikely that these opinions are all based on his healthcare bill.

Whether you want to accept it or not, a lot of the criticism about Obama really comes from having a record deficit, spending large amounts of money for the benefit of his political allies, and ramming legislation through congress with little or no debate that won’t be effective for several years; most of the stimulus spending hasn’t taken place yet, and the healthcare bill won’t be effective until 2013, why do these bills have to be pushed through so quickly that members of congress can’t read the bills and the public can’t know what is in them?

It's more that people would rather have the crappy system we have... then an equal crappy if not worse system that will cost more money.


Also he said that Obama should be treated with respect like the Queen of England... which.  I'd say the Prime Minister would be more appopriate...

which... what wilson did would be seen as very mild in the chambers of british government.

The Prime Minister is also the head of government but he is not the head of state. As such they are not equivalent offices. More respect is expected for a head of state in general.

While I agree with you, I somehow doubt that many people that are now speaking out against Joe Wilson would have defended George W Bush had he been called a liar during a political speech of his.

 

 



Kasz216 on 16 September 2009

Except i'm not talking about emergency room care Rath.

I'm talking about Medicare. Tons of illegal immigrants illegally gain access to medicare.


To get Medicare or any government medical benefits all you need to do in most states is say "I am a US resident."  There isn't even any checking to see if you are telling the truth.

Unless said laws were changed there is no reason to think this wouldn't be the case either.

 

As for the rest of your post... none of it really seems worth replying too... because there is a legiatimate argument... and the kind of thing your talking about is just a masquing shouting of racism just because some people don't want to be bothered to actually defend their plans that they know are put together poorly.



Rath on 16 September 2009
Kasz216 said:

Except i'm not talking about emergency room care Rath.

I'm talking about Medicare. Tons of illegal immigrants illegally gain access to medicare.


To get Medicare or any government medical benefits all you need to do in most states is say "I am a US resident."  There isn't even any checking to see if you are telling the truth.

Unless said laws were changed there is no reason to think this wouldn't be the case either.

 

As for the rest of your post... none of it really seems worth replying too... because there is a legiatimate argument... and the kind of thing your talking about is just a masquing shouting of racism just because some people don't want to be bothered to actually defend their plans that they know are put together poorly.

I'm not looking to get into a debate here so I'm going to leave it at this post. Criticising Obama and his healthcare bill are both totally legitimate. Once you begin to call him a tyrant, call for him to be overthrown, compare him to Nazi germany or say he's a dictator you're going way too far - overstepping reasonable criticism and moving beyond criticising the man himself.



TheRealMafoo on 16 September 2009
Rath said:

Obama and his healthcare bill are both totally legitimate. Once you begin to call him a tyrant, call for him to be overthrown, compare him to Nazi germany or say he's a dictator you're going way too far - overstepping reasonable criticism and moving beyond criticising the man himself.

Fair enough to call it going to far, but tens of millions of people said the same things about Bush, and they didn't say them because he was white.

I tell you though, I love this thread.

It reminds me of when Al Sharptin used Michael Jacksons death to keep pushing his race hate, and when I got on Twitter, I saw his name as a trend term, so I clicked on it to see what all the fuss was about. I read page after page about people calling him a dumb ass. The cool thing about Twitter, is a very large percentage of people who post, use a photo of themselves as there avatar. All of them were black.

Back to this thread. Here we have someone using the race card, and regardless of what side of the issue you are on, almost everyone here agrees that the likes and dislikes about Obama have nothing to do with the color of his skin.

That's something that would not of happened 20 years ago, and I think it's great that this is the trend of the world going forward. It's a much better indicator about the state of the world then any rhetoric that comes out of Carter.

As for why he said it, I am sure he thinks it's true because he can't understand why the world does not agree with the policies of Obama. The only thing he can think of, is race.

I don't agree with the health plan, because I don't want to kill millions of people. Sorry if that's wrong.



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badgenome on 16 September 2009
Kasz216 said:

I don't see how saying Obama is lieing is racism.

Because, dude. Dissent is the highest form of patriotism lowest and most repugnant form of racism.



SciFiBoy on 16 September 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
Rath said:

Obama and his healthcare bill are both totally legitimate. Once you begin to call him a tyrant, call for him to be overthrown, compare him to Nazi germany or say he's a dictator you're going way too far - overstepping reasonable criticism and moving beyond criticising the man himself.

Fair enough to call it going to far, but tens of millions of people said the same things about Bush, and they didn't say them because he was white.

I tell you though, I love this thread.

It reminds me of when Al Sharptin used Michael Jacksons death to keep pushing his race hate, and when I got on Twitter, I saw his name as a trend term, so I clicked on it to see what all the fuss was about. I read page after page about people calling him a dumb ass. The cool thing about Twitter, is a very large percentage of people who post, use a photo of themselves as there avatar. All of them were black.

Back to this thread. Here we have someone using the race card, and regardless of what side of the issue you are on, almost everyone here agrees that the likes and dislikes about Obama have nothing to do with the color of his skin.

That's something that would not of happened 20 years ago, and I think it's great that this is the trend of the world going forward. It's a much better indicator about the state of the world then any rhetoric that comes out of Carter.

As for why he said it, I am sure he thinks it's true because he can't understand why the world does not agree with the policies of Obama. The only thing he can think of, is race.

I don't agree with the health plan, because I don't want to kill millions of people. Sorry if that's wrong.

because trying to get more people healthcare, is of course the first step towards genocide?

seriously, what the fuck? I understand (just about, though i strongly disagree) your ecenomic reasons for not liking his plans, but to claim they will result in millions of people dying seems completley insane to me.



mrstickball on 16 September 2009

SciFi -

In the US, it is. The problem is that the healthcare system is broke. They aren't attempting to fix the broke system. They are attempting to get more people into the broken system, making it worse for everyone.

Fix the system. Increase the supply of medical treatments via less government regulations on the production of doctors and nurses. Allow nurse practitioners more control in the office. Once we've lowered costs, THEN lets talk about universality and catastrophic insurance.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Rath on 16 September 2009

Me and a mate were discussing before what a publicly run pharmaceutical would be like.

Problem with the pharmaceutical industry is that when they come up with a nifty new product (which by law only they can make) people need it - really really need it. Therefore they can charge whatever the hell they like for it.

A public non-profit pharmaceutical company would be able to focus on diseases which are more harmful but less profitable and turn out drugs at cheaper prices.

It seems like it could really lower the huge healthcare costs in America.



Kasz216 on 16 September 2009
Rath said:
Me and a mate were discussing before what a publicly run pharmaceutical would be like.

Problem with the pharmaceutical industry is that when they come up with a nifty new product (which by law only they can make) people need it - really really need it. Therefore they can charge whatever the hell they like for it.

A public non-profit pharmaceutical company would be able to focus on diseases which are more harmful but less profitable and turn out drugs at cheaper prices.

It seems like it could really lower the huge healthcare costs in America.

One already exists.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17540025/

http://www.oneworldhealth.org/