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Forums - General - Judaism was not originally monotheistic, Jesus was not originally loving.

Man created religion.  So its no suprise that man changes religion to meet his needs.  This goes along way to explain changes from ancient Judaism to Christianity, specifically a "Warrior God" who asks his followers to bash the babies of their enemies against rocks and to kill every man, woman, and child in cities they conquer, to a caring, loving God that is considered benevolent.

To further my point, I'll post Bible verses that are contradictory to what many Christians believe their religion represents.  In doing so, I will show that Judaism, and by relation Christianity, was not originally monotheistic and that Jesus was not initially the loving savior of mankind.

My goal is not to humiliate a group of believers, as you could make the same argument against any religion, my goal is to show hardened believers that religion is a creation of human society and that you should not use your religion to think lesser of those of other religions.  In the least, we should look at religion in a positive light in that its progression from malevolent, human-like gods to benevolent, perfect gods is a sign of humanities social progress through the ages.

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Deuteronomy 13:  One of many instances of evil in the Old Testament.

Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

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Mathew 15: Jesus calls a woman a dog and initally ignores a women's plea for help because she is of a different ethnicity.

And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.  Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

But he answered and said, It is not fair to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

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Judges 11Polytheism in the Bible.  God is recognized for the being the god of the Israel, but not the universal god of other nations.  Just as Yahweh gave land to the Hebrews, so do other gods provide land for their people.

Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess? So whomsoever the LORD our God shall drive out from before us, them will we possess.

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Exodus 12: God will judge the gods of Egypt and shame them by killing children in their nation.  Even though God is more powerful than the gods of Egypt, the gods of Egypt still exist.

For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

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Psalm 82: God consults with other gods, and eventually kills them so that he can inherit their nations.  Judaism becomes monotheistic as we think of the term today not because God is the only god, but because God killed the other gods.

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

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And if that isn't enough, one should also bring to light:

- There are also instances of the other gods in Israel's pantheon still being mentioned in the Bible, even though its followers attempted to omit such instances when they changed from polytheistic to monothiestic.  Examples of this include the goddess of Wisom being mentioned and being created before the Earth, and God beign angry at the River and Sea (God isnt actually upset with the a river, these were gods of ancient Israel who were mistranslated was mistranslated). 

- Many books of the New Testament having conflicting stories (such as Jesus's birth) and being written decades after Jesus lived, providing ample time for changes to be made to the original message.  

- Pagan's influence on modern Christiniaty, from Hades to Christmas Trees and the Easter Bunny. 

- Apollonius of Tyana, who lived a hundred years before Christinianity (edited), was a son of god, born to a virgin, preformed miracles, and ascended to Heaven.  Jesus shares similar characteristic to many other figures, some who predate him by thousands of years, such as Horus, Mithra, Attis, Dionysus, etc.

- Ebionite Christianity, an earlier form of Christianity than the Pauline (Paul's version of Christianity) form we follow today, that held onto Judaism's rules and regarded Jesus as a messiah and not an actual diety. 

- Marcion Christianity, another early form of Christianity that solved the problem of evil not with Satan (Hades), but by considering the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament as different beings, one evil and one good.

- Baal, an ancient god, changing from a diety into the demom Beelzebub (from Baal Zebub).



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Every month you try a new one of these... it gets sadder every month.



Kasz216 said:
Every month you try a new one of these... it gets sadder every month.

It does seem to occur around the same time every month. Anyway, this discussion bores me. I discuss it enough outside of the internet, I am not going to waste my time discussing it on here. However, off of the top of my head, I can see that some of the information is incorrect. Apollonius of Tyana did not live 100 years before Jesus. In fact, most information I have seen over the years places his birth and life after Jesus's.



I used to harsh on christianity but then I decided Jesus wasn't so bad, he just wanted us to love God and love eachother, so we would gain eternal life.



Someone's been reading sceptics annotated bible lol



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I guess for Kasz and Jackson's case, an ad hominem would be better than whatever silly argument they could muster.



There are no other gods recognized by Judaism because that is how God commands it. Never once does the bible put forth that the others don't exist. It repeatedly states (and demonstrates) the other gods don't matter at all, and only God should be recognized and worshiped. As such the followers only believe in one god, and thus it is monotheistic.

God does not kill any other gods in the bible though. He is the Lord of Hosts, the King of Kings, and the God of gods. That is, he runs the whole business. It is explained multiple times through-out the bible. I recommend reading Exodus, Judges, Samuel 1&2, and Kings 1&2 to get a better idea.

To say Jesus was not loving because he is a racist isn't even really an argument. Even though he looks at them as dogs he still helps her. He still helps the beggars, cripple, and tax collectors who were born into Judaism which others did not. Further, he also helped promote people who had converted into Judaism rather than being born into it as equals rather than second class citizens (putting it nicely). This really undermines the racist undertone you were trying to establish before as it was really looking down on anyone who was unwilling to convert to Judaism.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

ManusJustus said:

I guess for Kasz and Jackson's case, an ad hominem would be better than whatever silly argument they could muster.

Your argument deserves little more than an ad hominem attack honestly. It is ill researched, poorly defined, and not well supported. This whole thread is little more than flame bait based on the "substance" of your original post. You cherry pick a couple quotes to try and create an iflammatory point you know will get people to respond. Crying foul when someone doesn't fall for it makes it all the sadder really.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Gnizmo said:

Your argument deserves little more than an ad hominem attack honestly. It is ill researched, poorly defined, and not well supported. This whole thread is little more than flame bait based on the "substance" of your original post. You cherry pick a couple quotes to try and create an iflammatory point you know will get people to respond. Crying foul when someone doesn't fall for it makes it all the sadder really.

Then dont post.  It only brings to light ones inability to discuss the material.



nice, picking individual verses, thinking that they contradict the rest of the Bible and creating a post on it. People may have made you think God was all kind and gentle, but it quite clearly says in the Bible over and over again that God hates sin, and he wiped out the entire world with a flood. So, I don't see a few wars to wipe out an evil nation as a contradiction in any way.

As for your comment about the new testament being written decades later, it was pretty much written 60 years later by people with first hand accounts. Just saying there are contradictions does not mean there are. You didn't point any contradictions out above within the Bible. You just pointed out that there are contradictions with your preconceived notion of Judaism and Christianity.




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