Ah, the old "but you're not tolerant of intolerance" verbal nonsense.

Accepting people for how they are (gender, sexual orientation, skin color, height) and allowing them to live freely and equally is not the same thing as saying that you should be tolerant of every choice an individual may make.

And saying that you recognize to everyone the right to express their opinion does not mean that you recognize all opinions as equally valid or civil or significative.

And nightsurge, how can you say "I have nothing wrong with gay individuals" and then say that you don't support gay marriage bacause "it just isn't right"? Both can't be true at the same time.

Nobody is asking you to like gay marriage, but that's not the point. What civil rights associations ask is that whether you like it or not should not limit the rights of other people who are not harming anyone with their actions.

LOL - I just picked Will and Grace because it's probably the least offensive "gay show" I could think of.  We could've subbed in Ellen or Brokeback Mountain or a million other things.

I'm talking about making a stand where you have an alternative.  If I can  buy an import from Walmart or a domestic product from Target, the latter will win.  A.  domestic >>> import    B.  Target has better corporate policies than Walmart (plus they are a local company for me, as they are based about three blocks from my house).  But local hardware store owned by neighbor>>>>>Target.  And so on.

And sometimes it means not buying what you want.  I'd like to play Shadow Complex.  But I won't.  I have plenty of other options.  I also skipped Advent Rising, written by Card, and I know I would've liked that game as well.  

But again, the point is not about making others follow my lead in this case, but for others to make their opinions heard and to act by using their wallet wisely - both supporting and not supporting.

It's worth missing a couple material items and an extra couple bucks a month for doing something you believe in.  

It's a pity you don't get it... and I suppose those who haven't served have a problem understanding that there is no opinion more valid than another... just because you feel your opinion is valid doesn't mean that I or someone else should have that feeling... the point is excepting the opinion that may offend you as being the right of another person and being just as valid even if you don't like it... Personally I don't think anyone who hasn't served (and was able) should even get any rights at all... that's just my opinion and it's a valid one regardless of your own very valid opinions...

Target > Walmart?  Perhaps you've taken some drugs... Walmart gets singled out because it's so f'n massive, but Target has many ethic violations.  Then there is the problem that Walmart is a US owned company and Target is a foreign company and you run into problems... better to buy from K-Mart who has a decent mix of both.  I understand that you have strong feelings about Card... he sounds like an ass, but it's kind of like Yaoi in great fanfiction... just because Kakashi is putting it to Iruka doesn't mean I shouldn't give the story a chance even if slash fics are disturbingly written by young girls mostly... I think the point we need to get to is that you need to forget about Card and buy games that are good... support the dev because most of your money is going to those guys who work hard to make this game and to Card who while may have questionable, though valid, opinions is someone who has a strong creative force with in him.

^You posted that as a reply to me, but the content doesn't seem to be addressing what I wrote. I'll play along.

"There's no opinion more valid than another" is, simply, false. There's people who believe that the earth is flat, and there's people who think that governments inoculate populations with spying nano-machines mixed in the vaxines.

The freedom of expression means that everyone can pit their opinion in the arena against other opinions. But then opinions live and die by the strength of the arguments that support them - scientific, philosophic, rethorical.

The freedom to enter the fight is not equal to the right to never lose.

In this case we're pitting the concrete rights of real people to live happily and constitute families, the right to be treated as equal when it comes to legacy or to taking important decisions about medical procedures for their spouse. On the other side we have what? The offense someone might take because they don't like seeing two men or two women holding hands and kissing in public? The opinion that there's a higher being that is offended by some of the sexual orientations that happen to exist, but not others?

Mr Card is free to have this latter idea, but the day he acts - and expression is an action, especially for a creator of intellectual content - to actually hinder the betterment of the lives of people who cause no harm to anybody, is the day I find perfectly acceptable to fight against his opinion and its derivatives. Which is happening with legal and pacific means.

You do realize I said "to me" it just isn't right.  Way to try and take what I said out of context to make me look evil.  I'm saying to me the idea of being gay isn't something I'd ever consider, nor do I feel it a natural thing to occur.  That doesn't mean I hate gay people or what they do, as I have some gay friends.  I don't let my opinion on the matter reflect my treatment of others.  We were created with parts meant to reproduce with the opposite gender.  Humans cannot reproduce with same gender.  Thus attempting to reproduce with the same gender is not "natural." And I'm sure you'll take that to mean something aweful, but it's just a personal statement and view of mine, which again, has no reflection on how I treat individuals who are gay.  I treat everyone with equal respect regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

I am not asking to limit their rights.  They can have equal rights in anything they want.  All I am saying is that I personally never have to accept it or like it.  And for the record, not all opinions are equally valid or civil or significative.  If that were so, Hitler's opinion of Jews being an inferior people would have be accepted and tolerated just as any other.

I'm pretty sure he does not...His book...Is not really his...It belongs to the people at chair...

I sincerely was not trying to take some of your words out of context, it's just that I couldn't understand how the context changes their meaning at all.

Let's leave aside what you consider or not consider natural, because that's frankly not the point. You say that it has no reflection on how you treat gay people, and that's great. But then again you say

"They can have equal rights in anything they want.  All I am saying is that I personally never have to accept it or like it."

Which puzzles me, but maybe it's your choice of words.

In an ideal world I'd ask what is there to like or dislike in something in which you're not involved, since you're not gay, and that doesn't harm anybody. But I don't want to be that naive, and I understand that we have gut reactions depending on how we grew up. Exactly as old people may not like seeing a boy and a girl making out in the back rows of a bus, I understand that you might not like the sight of two men or women doing the same. I suppose that the rough response would be "too bad, that's your problem" :)

But acceptance is very different, and not accepting something means actively taking actions so that it doesn't happen or repeat. And I understand that it's not your case. Same with your "it's wrong" sentence. It's obvious that you meant "to me", but saying that you don't endorse gay marriage seems to be in conflict with your saying that you are for equal rights. After all the right to marry is a right that they are currently denied in most states.

PS: regarding your last paragraph, there must have been a misunderstanding. I do agree with you: I'm all for freedom of expression, but (obviously?) not for automatically considering all opinions on equal standing. In my case it's endorsement of legal discrimination of gay people that I can't treat on the same plane of "I think we should boycott this writer". The former aims to arbitrarily limit personal rights, the latter might be off-mark but is a totally legit consumer choice.

So you are going to punish a game company and its employees for using source material found in a book because its the flavor of the week and you feel like being contrary. Got it.

Look, I understand and respect human rights, but if you really want to go down this road, I could easily find remarks made by almost every CEO and/or employee of other companies and then say "If you buy their products, you support biggotry!" It's all just trendy garbage that will be forgotten a couple weeks from now. And no, I am not being trite, nor am I trolling, but the absolute truth is that very , very few people that are saying "I'm not buying this video game because of Orson Scott Card's beliefs" are doing pretty much anything else to encourage gay rights in America. Are you writing to your congressmen? Do you openly support it when asked about it at work, or home? Do you attend events and donate to charities that promote equal rights in America?

No? Okay then. You cant cherry pick which moral high ground to stand on. The man has controversial opinions. So do a lot of authors. Part of the beauty of America is that you are free to express your opinion without (much) recourse. He's also a mormon. Tell me, how many are not buying this game because of the mormon religions controversial viewpoint toward African Americans and minorities? How many are not buying this game because of their limited freedoms expressed towards women?

If you enjoy the game, then enjoy it for the work that the game designers put into it. If anyone even paid attention, Card's influence is barely noticed within the actual gameplay, or storyline even. In fact, if Epic was so willing they could probably have released this game without any indication of the source material and get away with it. And why should they be penalized for working on this source material? I'm fairly sure that many, many individuals on here read Enders Game at some point, and never put it down once saying "This makes me sick!" .

Or continue being contrary for the sake of it, whatever works for you. And yes, I do have gay friends. I do support them, and I realize the hardships they face in obtaining equal rights. I am just smart enough to know the difference between a flashy news topic and something to actually be concerned about. Let Card write his novels and have his opinion, and in the meantime, if you really want to make a difference,

Justgive.org , find some gay and lesbian charities, and actually make a difference.