leo-j said: How so? GT 5 prologue outsold GT4 prologue in North america

No shit it did. GT 4 Prologue didn't sell anything in America since it wasn't released in America. You didn't notice that GT4 Prologue's NA sales say 0.00, it has no release date and no box art for that region?

http://vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=3425&region=All

Here's an excerpt from GT4's Wiki page also:

Gran Turismo 4 Prologue' (グランツーリスモ4プロローグ, guran tsūrisumo 4 purorōgu) is a racing video game of the Gran Turismo series for Sony Playstation 2 which is published by Polyphony Digital. It was released on December 4, 2003 in Japan and Southeast Asia, January 15, 2004 in Korea, and May 26, 2004 in Europe.^[1] For undisclosed reasons, the game was not released in the North American market.

Onyxmeth said: leo-j said: How so? GT 5 prologue outsold GT4 prologue in North america No shit it did. GT 4 Prologue didn't sell anything in America since it wasn't released in America. You didn't notice that GT4 Prologue's NA sales say 0.00, it has no release date and no box art for that region? http://vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=3425&region=All Here's an excerpt from GT4's Wiki page also: Gran Turismo 4 Prologue' (グランツーリスモ4プロローグ, guran tsūrisumo 4 purorōgu) is a racing video game of the Gran Turismo series for Sony Playstation 2 which is published by Polyphony Digital. It was released on December 4, 2003 in Japan and Southeast Asia, January 15, 2004 in Korea, and May 26, 2004 in Europe.[1] For undisclosed reasons, the game was not released in the North American market.

 

The funny thing with you is though is that you say GT3 got such huge sales in NA because of bundles would that be correct?

If thats the case then lets take like i dont know 3.5 Million sales away from it.

Then that Puts the series over it's whole life time in America stagnant. Far from the SERVERE decline you are portraying.

Serious_frusting said: Onyxmeth said: leo-j said: How so? GT 5 prologue outsold GT4 prologue in North america No shit it did. GT 4 Prologue didn't sell anything in America since it wasn't released in America. You didn't notice that GT4 Prologue's NA sales say 0.00, it has no release date and no box art for that region? http://vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=3425&region=All Here's an excerpt from GT4's Wiki page also: Gran Turismo 4 Prologue' (グランツーリスモ4プロローグ, guran tsūrisumo 4 purorōgu) is a racing video game of the Gran Turismo series for Sony Playstation 2 which is published by Polyphony Digital. It was released on December 4, 2003 in Japan and Southeast Asia, January 15, 2004 in Korea, and May 26, 2004 in Europe.[1] For undisclosed reasons, the game was not released in the North American market.   The funny thing with you is though is that you say GT3 got such huge sales in NA because of bundles would that be correct? If thats the case then lets take like i dont know 3.5 Million sales away from it. Then that Puts the series over it's whole life time in America stagnant. Far from the SERVERE decline you are portraying.

That's not correct. That was Montana Hatchet that said GT3 was heavily bundled, not me. Is it really too hard to quickly look over the thread and check if I said that and not merely assume it?

If you go with that though, then you're correct in there not being a sharp decline in NA sales, but you've then effectively given up your argument that GT was ever as big as Halo 3 in NA. In either case, you're definitely wrong about something.

So which is it? Was GT3 big in NA because of popularity, or because of massive bundling?

I thought a game had to be out for it to be a killer app...

Look at the sales of GT4 and GT5P in NA.

It's not that the franchise isn't big in NA. It's just that it isn't near as big in NA as it is elsewhere, relatively speaking.

Edit: Wow, this thread is a mess.

makingmusic476 said: Look at the sales of GT4 and GT5P in NA. It's not that the franchise isn't big in NA. It's just that it isn't near as big in NA as it is elsewhere, relatively speaking.

Thats pretty logical coming from an Xbox 360 fanboy mod!

How come I try to say the same thing and get eviled?

Squilliam said: makingmusic476 said: Look at the sales of GT4 and GT5P in NA. It's not that the franchise isn't big in NA. It's just that it isn't near as big in NA as it is elsewhere, relatively speaking. Thats pretty logical coming from an Xbox 360 fanboy mod! How come I try to say the same thing and get eviled?

Everybody knows Wii fanboys like you shouldn't even be posting in discussions such as this.  Leave it to the ps3 and 360 fans, thankyouverymuch.

makingmusic476 said: Squilliam said: makingmusic476 said: Look at the sales of GT4 and GT5P in NA. It's not that the franchise isn't big in NA. It's just that it isn't near as big in NA as it is elsewhere, relatively speaking. Thats pretty logical coming from an Xbox 360 fanboy mod! How come I try to say the same thing and get eviled? Everybody knows Wii fanboys like you shouldn't even be posting in discussions such as this.  Leave it to the ps3 and 360 fans, thankyouverymuch.

But saaaaaaaales are all we've got! Im a professional market analyst with years of Vgcharts experience. If only one of the big publishers were to hire me I would sort out this industry within a year!

People say that GT3 sold 7 million in NA because of bundles. Well i just got NPD top 10 for year 2001 and 2002, yes Gran Turismo 3 was in top 10 2 consecutives years.

 

2001 Top 10 Video Game Titles, Sorted by Units
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RANK PLATFORM / TITLE PUBLISHER RELEASE DATE ARP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1 PS2 Grand Theft Auto 3 Rockstar Games OCT '01 $50.33
(Take 2 Interactive)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
2 PS2 Madden NFL 2002 Electronic Arts AUG '01 $49.62
----------------------------------------------------------------------
3 GBC Pokemon Crystal Nintendo of America JUL '01 $29.24
----------------------------------------------------------------------
4 PS2 Metal Gear Solid 2 Konami of America NOV '01 $48.57
----------------------------------------------------------------------
5 GBA Super Mario Advance Nintendo of America JUN '01 $29.85
----------------------------------------------------------------------
6 PS2 Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec Sony JULY '01 $49.70
----------------------------------------------------------------------
7 PS2 Tony Hawks Pro Skater 3 Activision OCT '01 $47.82
----------------------------------------------------------------------
8 PSX Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2 Activision SEPT '00 $28.83
----------------------------------------------------------------------
9 GBC Pokemon Silver Nintendo of America OCT '00 $29.17
----------------------------------------------------------------------
10 PSX Driver 2 Infogrames NOV '00 $29.52
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: NPDFunworld TRSTS Video Games

1. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2) Take Two
2. Grand Theft Auto III (PS2) Take Two
3. Madden NFL 2003 (PS2) Electronic Arts
4. Super Mario Advance 2 (GBA) Nintendo of America
5. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (PS2) SCEA
6. Medal Honor Frontline (PS2) Electronic Arts
7. Spider-Man: The Movie (PS2) Activision
8. Kingdom Hearts (PS2) Square EA
9. Halo (Xbox) Microsoft
10. Super Mario Sunshine (GC) Nintendo of America
11. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4 (PS2) Activision
12. Yu-Gi-Oh! Eternal (GBA) Konami
13. Dragonball Z: Goku (GBA) Infogrames
14. The Lord of the Rings: Two Towers (PS2) Electronic Arts
15. Yu-Gi-Oh! Dark Duel (GBC) Konami
16. Yu-Gi-Oh! Forbidden (PS) Konami
17. NCAA Football 2003 (PS2) Electronic Arts
18. Sonic Advance (GBA) THQ
19. Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell (Xbox) Ubi Soft
20. SOCOM: U.S. Navy Seals (PS2) SCEA

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/NPD_2002_in_review

As you can see GT3 was huge in NA and NPD doesn't count bundles.

shanbcn said: People say that GT3 sold 7 million in NA because of bundles. Well i just got NPD top 10 for year 2001 and 2002, yes Gran Turismo 3 was in top 10 2 consecutives years.   2001 Top 10 Video Game Titles, Sorted by Units ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RANK PLATFORM / TITLE PUBLISHER RELEASE DATE ARP ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 PS2 Grand Theft Auto 3 Rockstar Games OCT '01 $50.33 (Take 2 Interactive) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 PS2 Madden NFL 2002 Electronic Arts AUG '01 $49.62 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 3 GBC Pokemon Crystal Nintendo of America JUL '01 $29.24 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 4 PS2 Metal Gear Solid 2 Konami of America NOV '01 $48.57 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 5 GBA Super Mario Advance Nintendo of America JUN '01 $29.85 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 6 PS2 Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec Sony JULY '01 $49.70 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 7 PS2 Tony Hawks Pro Skater 3 Activision OCT '01 $47.82 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 8 PSX Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2 Activision SEPT '00 $28.83 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 9 GBC Pokemon Silver Nintendo of America OCT '00 $29.17 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 10 PSX Driver 2 Infogrames NOV '00 $29.52 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Source: NPDFunworld TRSTS Video Games Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2) Take Two Grand Theft Auto III (PS2) Take Two Madden NFL 2003 (PS2) Electronic Arts Super Mario Advance 2 (GBA) Nintendo of America Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (PS2) SCEA Medal Honor Frontline (PS2) Electronic Arts Spider-Man: The Movie (PS2) Activision Kingdom Hearts (PS2) Square EA Halo (Xbox) Microsoft Super Mario Sunshine (GC) Nintendo of America Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4 (PS2) Activision Yu-Gi-Oh! Eternal (GBA) Konami Dragonball Z: Goku (GBA) Infogrames The Lord of the Rings: Two Towers (PS2) Electronic Arts Yu-Gi-Oh! Dark Duel (GBC) Konami Yu-Gi-Oh! Forbidden (PS) Konami NCAA Football 2003 (PS2) Electronic Arts Sonic Advance (GBA) THQ Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell (Xbox) Ubi Soft SOCOM: U.S. Navy Seals (PS2) SCEA http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/NPD_2002_in_review As you can see GT3 was huge in NA and NPD doesn't count bundles.

Fair enough. Let's see how much that is though.

By VGChartz numbers, Madden 01  sold 1.1M. Less than that in its opening year, so 900K-1 million. It is reasonable to believe that GT3 thus sold a fair bit less than this, in the 750-900K range (for 2001)

By VGChartz numbers, Madden 02 sold 2.3M. Let's assume 2M of that were in 2002, which makes GT3 slightly lower than that, at a 1.5-2M.

All in all, that's likely to be less than 3M for the two years.  I wouldn't say that your data proves a lot (unless I made any errors). 2-3M could still come from bundles.