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Forums - General - Scientists Revolt Against Global Warming Fearmongering

More people would be happy to support solutions to other environmental problems...the ones that happen to be real, causing real problems.



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HappySqurriel said:
highwaystar101 said:

*Sigh* I think this humorous picture will explain things better than me...

Basically climate change is real, but what you read in the papers is distorted.

You're missing a few steps though ...

Another scientist decides that it is important to generate a computer model which demonstrated the "Current State" of the science and cherry-picks a collection of papers that support his personal hypothesis on the science. The system that the scientist is trying to model is so complex that it can not demonstrate stability under any conditions on its own and feedback loops will eventually have it run into extreme conditions which are impossible. The scientist then makes a bunch of modifications to the calculations and introduces constants that have no scientific basis to create stability within his model, but this introduction of assumed unscientific constants makes it so the computer model will display the trend from the other scientists papers to some degree.

and ...

Political organizations who see the situation as an oportunity to promote their political agenda use the worst case scenerios of the most extreme computer models to convert the situation into a crisis; and then that crisis is used to silence political and scientific debate on the issue.


This post was gold, Squirrel.

 



mrstickball said:
Montana - I agree.

An otherwise valid public issue has been politicized, taxed, and falsified. Wouldn't it be better for the scientists to invent new ways of making devices more efficient, rather than squabble about global warming? I mean, if we want to solve some sort of issue, it should be done through the best means, rather than taxed, or legislated.

Yes but what would be the point of doing this now? Today, in the middle of a financial crisis when any excuse is being metered to avoid action. Much like healthcare, the environment will be delayed for aslong as humanly possibe. My country will do its part since the majority of our wealth has come from cheap coal sales to china in the last decade. This is the problem, no one is going to do anything especially if people are kept naive about the real facts involved.

Since the economy is our "golden standard for living" on both sides of parliament this is the sollution that has been chosen. If you want to talk about liberty, sure lets talk about the liberty that allows one country to use 25% of the entire earths resources. Lets talk about that doubling because of China in the next 20 - 30 years.

 

 



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

megaman79 said:
mrstickball said:
Montana - I agree.

An otherwise valid public issue has been politicized, taxed, and falsified. Wouldn't it be better for the scientists to invent new ways of making devices more efficient, rather than squabble about global warming? I mean, if we want to solve some sort of issue, it should be done through the best means, rather than taxed, or legislated.

Yes but what would be the point of doing this now? Today, in the middle of a financial crisis when any excuse is being metered to avoid action. Much like healthcare, the environment will be delayed for aslong as humanly possibe. My country will do its part since the majority of our wealth has come from cheap coal sales to china in the last decade. This is the problem, no one is going to do anything especially if people are kept naive about the real facts involved.

Since the economy is our "golden standard for living" on both sides of parliament this is the sollution that has been chosen. If you want to talk about liberty, sure lets talk about the liberty that allows one country to use 25% of the entire earths resources. Lets talk about that doubling because of China in the next 20 - 30 years.

 

 

Suppse that the country that uses 25% of the resources but is responsible for 25% of the development of new technology which will allow the rest of the world to live a better life while using less resources; what if the actions you perform to lower the usage of resources has a limited impact on short term consumption but prevents the development of the technology for future efficient resource usage?

Most of the areas you're upset that there isn't rapid enough progress on are also very complicated systems where the reaction to an action can be greater in scale and far more negative than the original problem was; and in this environment it is actually very dangerous to make large changes, and most changes should come little by little after you understand what the impact of the previous change was. As a demonstration consider affordable housing where the end result of several large changes to multiple organizations in an attempt to make housing more affordable made housing less affordable; and the eventual collapse of the artificial market conditions produced by these changes produced a crisis in the financial markets.

 



Its ironic that more money isn't being spent 'studying the issue of the century' as is being spent by running around like a headless chicken. I ask, one simple question; why aren't there massive computing projects underway to run these computer models in much higher resolution and detail? If this is the biggest issue mankind faces, then where are the several bigger than anything we've got so far super computers?



Tease.

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Squilliam said:
Its ironic that more money isn't being spent 'studying the issue of the century' as is being spent by running around like a headless chicken. I ask, one simple question; why aren't there massive computing projects underway to run these computer models in much higher resolution and detail? If this is the biggest issue mankind faces, then where are the several bigger than anything we've got so far super computers?

Too many banks to bail out and car companies to save, so global warming has to be put in a lower priority :P

 



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@Squilliam, thats most likely due to the cost involved and the continued attempt to avoid investment by big firms in this research. Governments surely invest in research but when your considering a global study its got to be a difficult thing to achieve.



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

Squilliam said:
Its ironic that more money isn't being spent 'studying the issue of the century' as is being spent by running around like a headless chicken. I ask, one simple question; why aren't there massive computing projects underway to run these computer models in much higher resolution and detail? If this is the biggest issue mankind faces, then where are the several bigger than anything we've got so far super computers?

For the past couple of years I have thought that there needed to be a large open source climate modeling software package that is built with the assumption that most people would extend it through script-based plug-ins; and the licence would be written in such a way that all published results had to release the source code and all necessary inputs to achieve their results, and also would have to demonstrate how well the system performed at recreating the climate of the past 2000 years.

I have never acted on this thought because I am aware that it would never be used because it displays the "Wizzard" as a man behind a curtain ...



HappySqurriel said:
Squilliam said:
Its ironic that more money isn't being spent 'studying the issue of the century' as is being spent by running around like a headless chicken. I ask, one simple question; why aren't there massive computing projects underway to run these computer models in much higher resolution and detail? If this is the biggest issue mankind faces, then where are the several bigger than anything we've got so far super computers?

For the past couple of years I have thought that there needed to be a large open source climate modeling software package that is built with the assumption that most people would extend it through script-based plug-ins; and the licence would be written in such a way that all published results had to release the source code and all necessary inputs to achieve their results, and also would have to demonstrate how well the system performed at recreating the climate of the past 2000 years.

I have never acted on this thought because I am aware that it would never be used because it displays the "Wizzard" as a man behind a curtain ...

Haha, but seriously if they can afford $100B on the ISS, they can surely afford $10B worth of computers... They can even call it a tech industry bailout if they want.

Btw: How many climate models accurately predicted a drop in temperature these past few years?



Tease.

Or the increase this year? You could mention that too Squilliam.



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.