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Forums - General - Obama Quarterly Report

Crazymann said:
bigdom2786 said:
maybe we forgot that stock market was down to 7000 and we had subprime problems before Bush left office and now we're at 9000 and the housing market is going up...

All he needs to do now is fix heatlhcare and the job market....

Second of all, unemployment is a trailing indicator of the economy.  Employment goes up long after the recovery actually begins.

First of all (yeah this order is purposful), "fix health care".  He has no IDEA how to "fix" health care.  His "fix" for health care will further weaken the dollar, destabilize the country and continue the USA down its WARP SPEED trek in the wrong direction.  The US economy cannot afford his plan.  The US government cannot control everything.  It barely does a passing job at the aspects it already controls.

It is humorous (and sad) that he will destroy the economy while trying to "fix" the element that he says will destroy the economy.  The politics of fear is in full force here. 


I find it hiliarious that people act like the economy was in perfect condition before it. If ( and this is an if) he does destroy the economy, it wasn't on his terms, it was on a situation that was already in a serious condition...and he flatlined it trying to fix it. I hate that people act like he's gonna destroy the country when the country was pretty fucked up before he came in. And I do hate the government controlling everything thing but look we let companies do what they want and look it got us in the shitty mess we're in. And lastly healthcare has been shitty since day one, so wutever the fuck he does is probably mininal to the fact i gotta pay 25 bucks to cure a fucking headache. We've always has shitty heatlthcare, please don't act like it was perfect when Bush was around...and he did shit about it too.

 

Face it people it'll probably take most if not all of Obama's term to fix this mess...and it's because our past president screwed up over for 8 years. If you expect a return to 2000...take a time machine cuz it aint happening anytime soon. All i'm saying is give the man the benefit of doubt and lets see what he can do. The man has been in office 7 months...7 fucking months!!! Bush did shit in his 7 months of office and we were to busy looking at that dumbass Lacey Peterson trial and we all know god damn well the husband killed her. I'll give him to the end of next year and if things get worse i'll side with you guys, cuz I'm not expecting complete change by then but I would expect he did something useful...even though the closing of that dumbass unneccessary prison was something.



Around the Network

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx

Gallup is reporting 53% approval, 39% disaproval which is a record low since he took office.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

Sqrl said:
bigdom2786 said:
big_boss said:
Obama has made too many mistakes in his short time in office. After his four years are up he'll start saying " Bush left me a big mess its going to take another four years to clean it up, just give me four more." The last thing we need is someone pointing the finger at someone else for mistakes they were elected to fix but couldn't because there surrounded by idiots.

You know some of problems like the economy can be fixed by just drilling oil and getting rid of the Income Tax. Use some of the oil we drill and exporting the rest. Then use the profits for a alternative fuels program that way we can shift easily from one fuel to another when we're ready.

By getting rid of Income Tax the government can cut the amount they tax us weekly which would give us more to spend weekly, plus instead of getting that amount all at once ( Income Tax refund ) we get small amounts over time making things more stable I think?

The biggest problem we have is no matter who we elect in office they put party first, people second and thats when we get screwed.

Excuse me...but do people really think he's supposed to be perfect and magically fix all our problems in just a few months...its kinda hard to to have bipartisianship when teh other party is at your throat 24/7. Drillin oil btw was what got us in most of problems in the first place...Tho the last comment I agree fully on....it's always their agendas first and the people second...that's why we got into this mess in the first place.

 

I expect his rating to go down because people thoughthe would be the miracle worker when he's just a man. All the president really does is give the final say on things...and even then that can be overturned....if you guys wanna put blame anywhere go to Congress and the Senate. The only difference between Obama and Bush is that Obama actually knows what he's talking about aside from the health care issue ( I dont think anyone knows what the fuck they're talking about) and Bush looks like he was being forcefed the info as he was speaking.

 

Oh and if Mccain/Palin won...we wouldve been a hell of a lot worse.....like WW3 worse.

Fix everything? Of course not.  Make progress rather than make things worse?  Absolutely.

Note I don't agree/support big_boss' plan to be perfectly clear.

I do have to correct you on this point however, the president doesn't "just give the final say" - Historically he has been heavily involved in the formation and direction of new legislation, this is especially true of signature legislation that he campaigned on and promised to deliver. 

As for Obama knowing what he is talking about...nothing could be so obviously further from the truth.  Obama doesn't have a clue when it comes to the economy, health-care, taxes, or really anything that isn't giving a speach or community organizing.  During the campaign he and his followers admitted as much saying he would have advisers who knew these issues that could advise him.  The man has never run a business, never met a payroll, has no experience with the health-care industry and his only experience is basically 2 years in the senate (strictly speaking 4 but he was gone half the time campaigning), and anyone can tell you a legislative position is starkly different from an executive one.  The only time prior to being elected he had ever held any executive position he spent $100 million dollars on education reform in Chicago and when it was all spent his own assessment concluded they had a negligible impact on the schools....this same story has now repeated itself with the stimulus bill but the stimulus bill is 7,000 times more money - but federal dollars both times.

The fact is he is lying out his ass constantly about the stimulus and health-care to cover.  Examples?

  1. On the one hand he says "nobody is talking about cuts to medicare benefits" even though he himself had done so back in june.
  2. He constantly talks about a public "option" to provide "competition" and "free market spirit" but anyone who is even partially informed on the issue understands that employers would take the cost savings of dumping their private plans (even with the 8% knock) and push employees onto the public plan thus shoving private insurance out of business probably within the decade.  He knows his free market rhetoric is BS, and so do those on the left who understand that this is a ploy to get Government run health-care by any means necessary.  I can dig up footage of lefties readily admitting this if I need to.
  3. When stimulus is being discussed Obama says it is to help "immediately" and it needs to help people "right now"....but then once the thing is passed he says "As I made clear at the time it was passed, the recovery plan was not designed to work in four months" - His own words. Granted the latter half of the latter statement is correct, but the former part of that statement is an outright lie - he and his people did their absolute best to obfuscate just how little the plan was going to do in the short term.  If he hadn't hidden this fact the bill probably would have died in debate...which is why he pushed it.
  4. Then you have Biden saying 'the stimulus wasn't supposed to jolt the economy' even though he had previously referred to it in a white house press release as not only a jolt but a "big jolt" - "...we also came forward with what we're going to talk about today, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, an initial big jolt to give the economy a real head start."

Obama's work thus far is abysmal.  The best he has to offer is made up stats of "jobs saved" which nobody can actually verify and much of the jobs the stimulus did create are temporary with several having terminated thus putting those people back into unemployment lines.  Outside of that he and the left has the "just imagine" rhetoric which asks you to 'imagine what it would have been like without his plan!'  We don't have to imagine, as he showed us himself : we would be much better offAnd given that that graph is his assessment it is a safe bet it painted the prettiest picture he could get it to show without outright making things up (this is standard political stuff and I don't fault him for it - just to be clear).  Meaning he gave himself leeway for what he thought would happen under his plan so he could claim "wow it worked even better than we hoped!" in the event it went well and so that in the event it went poorly he would have some breathing room (again I don't fault him for this - in fact it would worry me if he hadn't because not putting forth some effort to manage expectations would be a huge blunder on his part). 

That's the problem....he has put some effort into  this...obviously there's a situiation taht's going on that he doesnt want say so the country doesnt go into panic mode and is trying fine the solution. but when the media wants a conference every single day what are you gonna do: deny? In this day and age that'll quickly start rumors and bring his rating down worse than it is now. The man has been in office not that long and this plan hasnt even been put in effect fully yet. And without the plan we still probably would have been in a bad position. The only thing i dont like is the turnaround we're getting and even the Republicians don't care cuz they're too busy looking at throwing out Sotomayor....

In the end I rather agree to disagree and let this die...cuz until we see the end result neither one of us is gonna be right.



Tyrannical said:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx

Gallup is reporting 53% approval, 39% disaproval which is a record low since he took office.

Yet more than 60% think hes a good leader and understands our problems...

http://www.gallup.com/video/121853/Two-Thirds-Obama-Strong-Decisive-Leader.aspx

this is why i dont use polls as fact cuz you just take a small amount of people's opinions and more times than not...they're incorrect on what the how country thinks...



bigdom2786 said:
Crazymann said:
bigdom2786 said:
maybe we forgot that stock market was down to 7000 and we had subprime problems before Bush left office and now we're at 9000 and the housing market is going up...

All he needs to do now is fix heatlhcare and the job market....

Second of all, unemployment is a trailing indicator of the economy.  Employment goes up long after the recovery actually begins.

First of all (yeah this order is purposful), "fix health care".  He has no IDEA how to "fix" health care.  His "fix" for health care will further weaken the dollar, destabilize the country and continue the USA down its WARP SPEED trek in the wrong direction.  The US economy cannot afford his plan.  The US government cannot control everything.  It barely does a passing job at the aspects it already controls.

It is humorous (and sad) that he will destroy the economy while trying to "fix" the element that he says will destroy the economy.  The politics of fear is in full force here. 


I find it hiliarious that people act like the economy was in perfect condition before it. If ( and this is an if) he does destroy the economy, it wasn't on his terms, it was on a situation that was already in a serious condition...and he flatlined it trying to fix it. I hate that people act like he's gonna destroy the country when the country was pretty fucked up before he came in. And I do hate the government controlling everything thing but look we let companies do what they want and look it got us in the shitty mess we're in. And lastly healthcare has been shitty since day one, so wutever the fuck he does is probably mininal to the fact i gotta pay 25 bucks to cure a fucking headache. We've always has shitty heatlthcare, please don't act like it was perfect when Bush was around...and he did shit about it too.

 

Face it people it'll probably take most if not all of Obama's term to fix this mess...and it's because our past president screwed up over for 8 years. If you expect a return to 2000...take a time machine cuz it aint happening anytime soon. All i'm saying is give the man the benefit of doubt and lets see what he can do. The man has been in office 7 months...7 fucking months!!! Bush did shit in his 7 months of office and we were to busy looking at that dumbass Lacey Peterson trial and we all know god damn well the husband killed her. I'll give him to the end of next year and if things get worse i'll side with you guys, cuz I'm not expecting complete change by then but I would expect he did something useful...even though the closing of that dumbass unneccessary prison was something.

Please...

I am no fan of Bush, and I recognize fully well the situation that the economy was in when Obama took office.  However, his methods of "fixing" our problems WILL create problems of their own.  He inherited a bad situation, but he is making it worse - not better - by spending money we don't have, on things that don't do what he claims.

Only about 10% of the "stimulus" money has been spent, the leading stats of the economy point to a recovery.  LET'S TAKE THE REST BACK.  We can't afford to spend 3 TRILLION dollars on "stimulus" and "fixing" health care.  WE DON'T HAVE THAT MONEY! 

The hipocritical nature of the whole administration is most upsetting...

1.  "Be responsible" yet we are being incredibly irresponsible with our spending.

2. "You won't have to change health care if you don't want to" = FALSE

3.  "We need this health care" - okay, then why do the senators, reps and OBAMA not have to use the same damn system that is being FORCED on us.

4.  "Pay your taxes" - why, nobody in the Obama cabinet does, I am just working on my Obama resume.

I could go on, but others in this thread have done it far better.



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bigdom2786 said:

That's the problem....he has put some effort into  this...obviously there's a situiation taht's going on that he doesnt want say so the country doesnt go into panic mode and is trying fine the solution. but when the media wants a conference every single day what are you gonna do: deny? In this day and age that'll quickly start rumors and bring his rating down worse than it is now. The man has been in office not that long and this plan hasnt even been put in effect fully yet. And without the plan we still probably would have been in a bad position. The only thing i dont like is the turnaround we're getting and even the Republicians don't care cuz they're too busy looking at throwing out Sotomayor....

In the end I rather agree to disagree and let this die...cuz until we see the end result neither one of us is gonna be right.

Well I'm not saying he hasn't put forth effort or done nothing, on the contrary I think he has tried some things - I just don't think they are working.  As for the media I would point out that Bush had 4 prime time interviews during his presidency and Obama has already matched him...so yeah I think it's safe to say he is overly exposed thus far.  You are however completely right that he has to have some public face - if I gave the impression I wanted him to dissappear then I apologize because you are correct that you have to have some public presence to be a leader (I actually think this is one of Bush's faults people rarely list).

The problem with his press conferences isn't so much that he is having them as it is that he isn't saying anything concrete or advancing the discussion at all.  He comes out, delivers the same lines and talks about the same things he has been and then the numbers go down because people didn't hear a plan or anything new. 

Again I will agree that the plan isn't fully into effect yet but it has started going into effect and we have some early results.  The thing is, saying "without the plan we would still be in a bad spot" is missing the point - There are degrees of how bad things are, 8% unemployment is uncomfortable 10% is worrisome, 12% is ...well lets hope we don't get there.  But we can rest assured we will probably hit 10% pretty quickly regardless of what happens and 10% is 25% worse than what Obama said was possible under his plan.

As for republicans and Sotomayor...not quite true.  Most of them seem to have accepted her approval and there are Republican ideas being put forth on Healthcare reform and there was a Republican plan for stimulus. They aren't just doing nothing - allthough if you listen to the normal media outletts (ie CNN, MSNBC, and even FNC) you would have that impression.  The issue is that Pelosi and the hard-liberals are running the show and they don't even want Blue-Dog dems in the room when it comes to formulating legislation (as we saw earlier today when they threatened to walk on healthcare if Blue-Dogs were allowed to set some terms for their votes).

And I haven't even brought up this whole Czar mess....I mean really? Does anyone think this Czar thing is a genuinely good idea?

As for agree to disagree - this much we definitely agree on, I doubt either of us expects to convince the other completely but the debate itself is still an important exercise.



To Each Man, Responsibility

Obama is the best thing to happen to the republican party in years. Next thing you know he will be insulting the whole police force and making a complete ass of himself...




Times Banned: 12

Press----------------> <----------------Press

Tyrannical said:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx

Gallup is reporting 53% approval, 39% disaproval which is a record low since he took office.

Of course his approval rating is so low. He has not flipped the magic "make everthing right switch" on his desk, the one that Bush flipped off to make Katrina hit the black people and opress them and whatnot. As soon as Obama turns on that switch all his loyal voters will be bless by obama hands and given all they desire.

 

 

Is Obama a genie or a god? I forget.




Times Banned: 12

Press----------------> <----------------Press

bigdom2786 said:
Sqrl said:
bigdom2786 said:
big_boss said:
Obama has made too many mistakes in his short time in office. After his four years are up he'll start saying " Bush left me a big mess its going to take another four years to clean it up, just give me four more." The last thing we need is someone pointing the finger at someone else for mistakes they were elected to fix but couldn't because there surrounded by idiots.

You know some of problems like the economy can be fixed by just drilling oil and getting rid of the Income Tax. Use some of the oil we drill and exporting the rest. Then use the profits for a alternative fuels program that way we can shift easily from one fuel to another when we're ready.

By getting rid of Income Tax the government can cut the amount they tax us weekly which would give us more to spend weekly, plus instead of getting that amount all at once ( Income Tax refund ) we get small amounts over time making things more stable I think?

The biggest problem we have is no matter who we elect in office they put party first, people second and thats when we get screwed.

Excuse me...but do people really think he's supposed to be perfect and magically fix all our problems in just a few months...its kinda hard to to have bipartisianship when teh other party is at your throat 24/7. Drillin oil btw was what got us in most of problems in the first place...Tho the last comment I agree fully on....it's always their agendas first and the people second...that's why we got into this mess in the first place.

 

I expect his rating to go down because people thoughthe would be the miracle worker when he's just a man. All the president really does is give the final say on things...and even then that can be overturned....if you guys wanna put blame anywhere go to Congress and the Senate. The only difference between Obama and Bush is that Obama actually knows what he's talking about aside from the health care issue ( I dont think anyone knows what the fuck they're talking about) and Bush looks like he was being forcefed the info as he was speaking.

 

Oh and if Mccain/Palin won...we wouldve been a hell of a lot worse.....like WW3 worse.

Fix everything? Of course not.  Make progress rather than make things worse?  Absolutely.

Note I don't agree/support big_boss' plan to be perfectly clear.

I do have to correct you on this point however, the president doesn't "just give the final say" - Historically he has been heavily involved in the formation and direction of new legislation, this is especially true of signature legislation that he campaigned on and promised to deliver. 

As for Obama knowing what he is talking about...nothing could be so obviously further from the truth.  Obama doesn't have a clue when it comes to the economy, health-care, taxes, or really anything that isn't giving a speach or community organizing.  During the campaign he and his followers admitted as much saying he would have advisers who knew these issues that could advise him.  The man has never run a business, never met a payroll, has no experience with the health-care industry and his only experience is basically 2 years in the senate (strictly speaking 4 but he was gone half the time campaigning), and anyone can tell you a legislative position is starkly different from an executive one.  The only time prior to being elected he had ever held any executive position he spent $100 million dollars on education reform in Chicago and when it was all spent his own assessment concluded they had a negligible impact on the schools....this same story has now repeated itself with the stimulus bill but the stimulus bill is 7,000 times more money - but federal dollars both times.

The fact is he is lying out his ass constantly about the stimulus and health-care to cover.  Examples?

  1. On the one hand he says "nobody is talking about cuts to medicare benefits" even though he himself had done so back in june.
  2. He constantly talks about a public "option" to provide "competition" and "free market spirit" but anyone who is even partially informed on the issue understands that employers would take the cost savings of dumping their private plans (even with the 8% knock) and push employees onto the public plan thus shoving private insurance out of business probably within the decade.  He knows his free market rhetoric is BS, and so do those on the left who understand that this is a ploy to get Government run health-care by any means necessary.  I can dig up footage of lefties readily admitting this if I need to.
  3. When stimulus is being discussed Obama says it is to help "immediately" and it needs to help people "right now"....but then once the thing is passed he says "As I made clear at the time it was passed, the recovery plan was not designed to work in four months" - His own words. Granted the latter half of the latter statement is correct, but the former part of that statement is an outright lie - he and his people did their absolute best to obfuscate just how little the plan was going to do in the short term.  If he hadn't hidden this fact the bill probably would have died in debate...which is why he pushed it.
  4. Then you have Biden saying 'the stimulus wasn't supposed to jolt the economy' even though he had previously referred to it in a white house press release as not only a jolt but a "big jolt" - "...we also came forward with what we're going to talk about today, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, an initial big jolt to give the economy a real head start."

Obama's work thus far is abysmal.  The best he has to offer is made up stats of "jobs saved" which nobody can actually verify and much of the jobs the stimulus did create are temporary with several having terminated thus putting those people back into unemployment lines.  Outside of that he and the left has the "just imagine" rhetoric which asks you to 'imagine what it would have been like without his plan!'  We don't have to imagine, as he showed us himself : we would be much better offAnd given that that graph is his assessment it is a safe bet it painted the prettiest picture he could get it to show without outright making things up (this is standard political stuff and I don't fault him for it - just to be clear).  Meaning he gave himself leeway for what he thought would happen under his plan so he could claim "wow it worked even better than we hoped!" in the event it went well and so that in the event it went poorly he would have some breathing room (again I don't fault him for this - in fact it would worry me if he hadn't because not putting forth some effort to manage expectations would be a huge blunder on his part). 

That's the problem....he has put some effort into  this...obviously there's a situiation taht's going on that he doesnt want say so the country doesnt go into panic mode and is trying fine the solution. but when the media wants a conference every single day what are you gonna do: deny? In this day and age that'll quickly start rumors and bring his rating down worse than it is now. The man has been in office not that long and this plan hasnt even been put in effect fully yet. And without the plan we still probably would have been in a bad position. The only thing i dont like is the turnaround we're getting and even the Republicians don't care cuz they're too busy looking at throwing out Sotomayor....

and for the love of God our healthcare is shitty anyways.... and #2 is opinion not fact.


Thats our problem, right there. our country puts blame on someone else. If its not the democrats fault then its the republicans, if its not the republicans then it the democrats. They just can't admit that they screwed up so they point there finger somewhere else. I think Obama's plan isn't working and he knows its not but he's to stubborn to change it. When Obama went to Youngstown, Ohio where pretty much no one has a job he said he would help our state back to the 90's where farms would grow great crops and factories would open and bring new and important jobs back to Ohio. We all know that it would take a year maybe two to get half of what our state had back. We thought he could do it, but since he's been in office it just hasn't look up. We lost more and more jobs each month and people here just can't wait for change to happen. I don't know about you but my family is in terrible shape financially and things aren't looking any better. We have struggled for years as a state and I think we deserve to be alittle impatient

GamerTag/PSN ID JoshmyersBV (please add me I have 2 friends on Xbox Live)

Yeah, I've lost a lot of faith in Obama. Perhaps the economy will recover during his term, and he'll get tons of praise for it. That's always a possibility. Anyways, I don't think we should be pointing fingers at parties or people. Both sides are terrible. Like the Roman Empire, our decline is synonymous with a string of terrible leaders.