By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony - The Cell Processor....

joeorc on 27 July 2009
Soleron said:
joeorc said:
Soleron said:
 

 

"the Cell is also a GPU...the Cell is a hybrid CPU/GPU so yes it does indeed make game look better if you as a developer design a game to use the Cell Processor's GPU functions..and as for the PPE being there to control the SPE's , once again that is not 100% true the SPE's are and can be used without the need of the PPE to direct them, does that mean the SPE should..no because you indeed get better result's from the PRE-call file system of the PPE to the SPE's. but the SPE's can do DMA commands without the need of the PPE."

That claim is marketing speak only. The Cell is clearly a CPU, however you are right in that it has much higher FP performance per core than a normal CPU. But it doesn't have any fixed-function hardware that a GPU does and it has very few parallel threads compared to a GPU. I said it can perform some pre- and post-rendering effects to the graphics, but if you were to make it do shaders it would be 10-100x slower than the PS3's GPU.

umm no its not..that is for sure not marketing speak,since when is 30 billion shader ops/sec is marketing speak because that is what the Cell has been already benchmarked at with its terrain rendering..that's without needing the GPU...the Cell is infact a hybrid CPU/GPU yes it does indeed get better results while working in tandum with the GPU but the Cell is infact also a GPU ..that's not marketing speak it is what it is.

Yeah, and you can use a standard desktop quad-core to do software rendering too, and it looks about as good as that Cell rendering demo (i.e. rubbish compared to modern GPUs) You'd still call Intel's quad-cores CPUs, right? To qualify as a GPU it has to be massively parallel, have some fixed-function hardware to accelerate setup, and support a graphics API. Not one commercially available product using the Cell uses it for rendering like a GPU.

yes the Quad-core can also be used for rendering too, but it is not designed as a HYBRID CPU/GPU the Cell processor is.

"To qualify as a GPU it has to be massively parallel"

That's like saying the GPU's 10 year's ago are not GPU's because they were not "massively parallel" or shader programming was not as well developed..!

come on man..I respect you and all but your claim is bogus, you know better than that.

those GPU's back then were still GPU's....by today's standards they are no way near as capable as today's upto date card's but it does not take away from the fact they are what they are.

The Cell is a Hybrid CPU/GPthat is 100% a fact..nothing changes that..the Quad core is not a hybrid CPU/GPU that is a fact nothing changes that.

as for Not One product uses the Cell to render as a GPU..why would it..think about it it would be very expensive to use the Cell to replace the functions of a dedicated GPU because the GPU is right now cheaper because its 100% dedicated as a GPU and its cheaper to use the existing API's that many GPU's that are already mature for dedicated Graphic's cards anf graphic's chip's in in embedded systems. the very fact that ,AMD ,ATI, Nvidia,Intel and now IBM along with sony and toshiba are all gearing up and all making HYBRID CPU/GPU type CHIPS. the dedicated GPU in embedded systems may be going the way side in the fact that these Hybrid chips are cheaper and more than capable to do GPU functions without the need of a dedicated GPU.Now this is mainly toward Embeded systems and not the mainstram PC Desktop market but for the fact that these processor's are not bought as "quote"

Not one commercially available product

just because you cannot buy the Cell Processor over the counter at a computer supply store does not mean it cannot be used for Graphic's functions. for instance the Cell makes a great GPU accelerator chip for graphic's..which Toshiba already has done with some Laptop's they already have on the market. like for example the Toshiba's qosmio-g50.




I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Around the Network
Soleron on 27 July 2009
Scoobes said:
...

@ Soleron: How do you know so much about CPU & GPU architectures?

Assuming you're being serious, it's from obsessively reading hardware review websites.

--

@HappySquirrel

Yes, that's a better description than mine. I don't know what possessed Sony to use it in a games console; it isn't suited for game logic or graphics workloads.



indodude on 27 July 2009

I may be a tech idiot, but why do we would need to know about this? The point is that T3H C3LL(THE DESTROYER OF THE UNIVERSE!!!!) is inside the PS3 and we're supposed to use it, not know about pointless info about its architecture that we don't need really need stuffed inside our brains, unless you're a designer for Sony or a spy for Microsoft.... just saying.



Scoobes on 27 July 2009
Soleron said:
Scoobes said:
...

@ Soleron: How do you know so much about CPU & GPU architectures?

Assuming you're being serious, it's from obsessively reading hardware review websites.

--

@HappySquirrel

Yes, that's a better description than mine. I don't know what possessed Sony to use it in a games console; it isn't suited for game logic or graphics workloads.

1. I was, the GeForce 2 bit was a joke. I thought you might actually work in chip design or something, but now I know its just geekiness :P

2. I think Sony were orginally planning to have it in more hardware than just PS3. Not sure if they've done anything else with it though. Maybe in some Blu-Ray players?




Get your Portable ID!

eb30577 on 27 July 2009

Instead of thinking that you have 3 or 8 planes. Think of it as a plane with 3 or 8 engines. Now you decide which is faster. With a properly designed OS that properly uses multithreading that is in essence what is happening.



Around the Network
Soleron on 27 July 2009
Scoobes said:
...

1. I was, the GeForce 2 bit was a joke. I thought you might actually work in chip design or something, but now I know its just geekiness :P

2. I think Sony were orginally planning to have it in more hardware than just PS3. Not sure if they've done anything else with it though. Maybe in some Blu-Ray players?

1. I'm still at school. I'm going to do Physics at uni then possibly apply for a chip design job.

2. Yeah, I think they had a grand strategy involving PS3 linked to Sony media players and TVs sharing Cell and PSN and dominating the living room. Since PS3 flopped I think they dropped that and what we're seeing is the broken pieces of that strategy.

I know Toshiba (also a Cell partner) brought out a laptop with a four-SPE Cell derivative specifically for video processing, alongside an actual CPU and GPU.

@joeorc

I concede it isn't a conventional CPU, but it certainly isn't a GPU. The Rage and TNT weren't massively parallel, you're right, but they were all fixed-function units specifically for graphics. CPUs and GPUs will converge, but the Cell isn't (and, importantly, was never intended) to be the first of such hybrids. Intel's Larrabee is the closest I've seen so far, but that'll only be sold as a GPU initially.



Adobo on 27 July 2009
indodude said:

I may be a tech idiot, but why do we would need to know about this? The point is that T3H C3LL(THE DESTROYER OF THE UNIVERSE!!!!) is inside the PS3 and we're supposed to use it, not know about pointless info about its architecture that we don't need really need stuffed inside our brains, unless you're a designer for Sony or a spy for Microsoft.... just saying.

ah ok. So who will try and sacrifice the Earth and who will destroy T3H blasted C3LL?



joeorc on 27 July 2009
Soleron said:
Scoobes said:
...

1. I was, the GeForce 2 bit was a joke. I thought you might actually work in chip design or something, but now I know its just geekiness :P

2. I think Sony were orginally planning to have it in more hardware than just PS3. Not sure if they've done anything else with it though. Maybe in some Blu-Ray players?

1. I'm still at school. I'm going to do Physics at uni then possibly apply for a chip design job.

2. Yeah, I think they had a grand strategy involving PS3 linked to Sony media players and TVs sharing Cell and PSN and dominating the living room. Since PS3 flopped I think they dropped that and what we're seeing is the broken pieces of that strategy.

I know Toshiba (also a Cell partner) brought out a laptop with a four-SPE Cell derivative specifically for video processing, alongside an actual CPU and GPU.

@joeorc

I concede it isn't a conventional CPU, but it certainly isn't a GPU. The Rage and TNT weren't massively parallel, you're right, but they were all fixed-function units specifically for graphics. CPUs and GPUs will converge, but the Cell isn't (and, importantly, was never intended) to be the first of such hybrids. Intel's Larrabee is the closest I've seen so far, but that'll only be sold as a GPU initially.

though once again i respect you and all. but the fact of the matter is the Cell is infact also a GPU. In your Opinion its not, but the fact's say other wise it is what it is a HYBRID

CPU/GPU. and your right it was never to be the first of such Hybrids the very fact that the major manuf. of chip's were thinking along the same lines in their enbedded chip design's does indeed show the Cell processor was made to be used as such.

Look i respect your Opinion but on the same token I tend to agree with the chiefd designer's of said chip's when they are the one's who made the chip. and they have stated what the chip is. and what the Cell chip is a HYBRID CPU/GPU you cannot get any more clear than that.

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Mvp4eVa on 27 July 2009

Wow,.. people make it sound like the cell has life of its own here.. Hybrid ? since when.

And why mix Synergistic Processing Elements (SPEs) with cores ..

SPEs are not Cores. Again SPEs are not cores.

The Cell is a single core CPU with 8 SPEs, one SPE is locked-out , another one is reserved for the OS leaving 6 free SPEs to be used by games' code..

Developers only has access to 6 SPEs .

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_microprocessor#Commercialization

Xenon consist of 3 independent processor CORES on a single die. These cores are slightly modified versions of the PPE in the Cell processor which was designed specifically for the PlayStation 3. Each core has 3 symmetric hardware threads (SMT), for a total of 6 hardware threads available to games.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_(processor)

In theory the Cell is slighty faster then the Xenon cpu but realistically both are similar in strength according to IBM's creator of both chips ..



My Trigger Happy Sixaxis controller

 


                            

Soleron on 27 July 2009
joeorc said:
...

Look i respect your Opinion but on the same token I tend to agree with the chiefd designer's of said chip's when they are the one's who made the chip. and they have stated what the chip is. and what the Cell chip is a HYBRID CPU/GPU you cannot get any more clear than that.

 

Link? If so I'll accept it.