orly?

Noel Gallagher and JK Rowling were on welfare...are you saying they arent successful?

You don't actually think an anecdote like that proves anything right?

I mean you do know what a statistical outlier is? It would be unusual if you couldn't point to some exceptions.

true, but his statement is just as bad, he's implying that anyone on welfare can never be successful, i proved that they can, yes to be successful on the level of the 2 people i mentioned is rare, but i dont think its fare to say that welfare stops success at all, far from it, it just means you get support when your not successfull.

If there are poor people who have never seen a doctor in their lives they sure don't understand how the US Healthcare system works.

Those who can't afford healthcare get Medicaid.

ANYONE can see a doctor by going to an emergency room.  For anything.  You can go to the emergency room with a sore throat or whatever.

The only people in the US who are screwed really are those who have preexisting conditions that no insurer wants to take on and people who choose to not have insurance.

An overstatement but upword movement in America is much better then in the UK.

And for that matter... everywhere in europe except for Scandenavian countries.

Socialist like programs works best on small scales.

Also my questions

1) Does this count if you QUALIFY for the healthcare. For example if I work at Walmart as a part timer... do I get taxed?

2) How will this effect people who CAN get healthcare through their company.... but think they can't afford it... can they be covered? If not it doesn't solve anything.

It's a little extreme to say his statement was absolute but if he intended it that way then you're right. 

Ulimately it's true that people who have the skills to make it can (and do) go through tough times but it's also true that these people are far from a majority of the people on welfare.

If you don't think welfare can inhibit the drive to succeed in people just look at a lot of the communes that were started back in the 60's.  Most of those ended in turmoil around a small group of people pulling all the weight while others lazed about the place.  Any time you have a system that provides rewards for failure or lack of effort you're going to encourage people to do nothing and attract freeloaders.  It's certainly fair to say that this trap doesn't catch everyone and some people do retain the drive to succeed nevertheless but it definitely has the effect he is referring to on a subset of the population.

It's a subject of debate as to how many people fall into the trap but thats a whole other topic really.

I think Sqrl and Kasz explained it well enough.

And I said it protects you from success. Saying that means you could never be successful is like saying people under police protection could never be harmed.

I mean if I am given 15K a year for doing nothing, and the only job I can get right off the bat pays me 18K a year, why would I work for 3K?

If I was forced to work, I would probably be making at least 25-30k in 10 years. If I was on welfare, I would still be making 15K.

Yea, there are people with the vision to see that working sets you up for a better future, but they are the extreme minority.

Although I doubt I will add anything to this topic, I just wanted to say something. There is a very small group of people in this world who will spend their time productively developing a skill or a (potential) product if they’re given enough free time; and if they’re talented enough, their timing is correct, and they get lucky they will become remarkably successful. For example, I expect that some developer who loses their job because of the recession will end up putting all their energy towards developing a website which will become remarkably well known and successful.

The truth is that these people are rare and, because of their underlying productive nature, they will typically not be the kinds of people who end up on welfare ...

Now, when you look at welfare from a high level there is a disturbing trend where communities that rely heavily on welfare (and being on welfare loses the stigma associated with it) the community seems to rot from inside. There are countless factors associated with this, but one of the main factors in my opinion is that it would be virtually impossible to raise a child with a solid work ethic and the drive to make something out of themself when they're raised in an environment where people don't work for anything.