By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Honduras "coup"

Desroko said:
The referendum was illegal. But there were legal means to counteract it, and using force to remove him from office is not one of them.

If you've been alive for more than five years, "two wrongs do not make a right" should not need be explained to you.


This guy got it.

 Havent you wondered why this isnt aprooved by any other country or group of countries?



Around the Network

I stumbled across a pretty good blog post on this issue:

http://weeksnotice.blogspot.com/2009/07/honduras-summing-up-some-basic-points.html

 

After quite a few posts and many comments on this blog, not to mention countless articles and blog posts elsewhere, many of them contradictory, several key points have started to stick in my mind about the coup in Honduras.


1. According to the constitution, taking Zelaya out of the country was illegal. Period.

2. Zelaya is charged with trying to amend the constitution to allow re-election of the president (which would be illegal), yet no one has ever provided evidence to that effect. It is illegal to amend seven particular parts of the constitution, but the wording of the proposed vote did not mention any of them.

I do not care if you are positive he wanted to, as that does not constitute evidence. He said before the coup that he would leave office in 2010. Maybe he was lying, maybe not. But it deserves more investigation before overthrowing him. Ousting a president requires more than just assumptions about intent.

 

3. At various times, commenters have mentioned Venezuela as intruding (such as with the plebiscite materials) but I have never seen the Supreme Court or Attorney General mention evidence.* Until I do, I think Venezuela is irrelevant. That Zelaya liked Hugo Chavez is not relevant to his standing as president. That Chavez says ridiculous things about invasion is not relevant to Zelaya's case either.


4. Zelaya was unpopular (even with his own party) and many people in Honduras are glad he's gone. This is irrelevant to the law. Surprisingly, I have not yet seen anyone make an argument for how a parliamentary system might have mediated the situation better--Honduran political institutions are so weak it might not have mattered.

* It is also troubling for a Supreme Court justice to use the gossipy phrase "some say" as in "some say it was not Zelaya but Chavez governing."



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

MrBubbles said:

how is acting within the law and arresting a criminal one of the worst things to happen to a country?

the supreme court told him it was illegal...when the military said it wouldnt help him...he fired the head of the military.(sound like a nice guy to you?)

when it says to remove someone immediately...you remove them immediately.

 

If my Prime Minister(whom i happen to support) was commiting an illegal act and the law said to remove him immediately...then by all means...they should remove him immediately. 

 

 

Please tell me you're joking. So, in your view he's done something unconstitutional (I don't agree with that, but let's go with that) and you're encouraging an action that's CLEARLY unconsititutional??? I don't know exactly the Honduran Constitution and elgefe can correct me if I'm wrong, but most Latin American Constitutions are the same, so I think I can use mine fine.

The Argentinian Constitution states clearly that any government that's not elected by a democratic process stated in the Constitution is illegal, unconstitutional and it's a DUTY of any argentinian citizen to stand against it. In this case, the coup d'etat is unconstitutional. Yet you're defending it, claiming that it's done to "defeat an illegality"???

Clearly, you got a BIG contradiction.




i don't know how many people are honduran in here but i'm so heres what i think:

the asshole that is now president(roberto micheletti bain) has being wanted to be for years, he lost internal elections these year and tried to stop the candidate who beat him with political barriers, yet he failed. the referendum isn't ilegal, the congress(run by micheletti) actually passed a law that allowed, but here is my favorite part: the people who run the country(those with money) feared that the referendum would bring a chavez-like govermetn to the country, so they launched a mass(gigantic, besides burger king comercials every other ad ran at tv was of that) campaign against it, the capitalist monkeys of my country ate it up and as always licked the ass of the money guys. then again, when society doesn't want to be saved, well it won't be saved.



 

famousringo said:

I stumbled across a pretty good blog post on this issue:

http://weeksnotice.blogspot.com/2009/07/honduras-summing-up-some-basic-points.html

 

After quite a few posts and many comments on this blog, not to mention countless articles and blog posts elsewhere, many of them contradictory, several key points have started to stick in my mind about the coup in Honduras.


1. According to the constitution, taking Zelaya out of the country was illegal. Period.

2. Zelaya is charged with trying to amend the constitution to allow re-election of the president (which would be illegal), yet no one has ever provided evidence to that effect. It is illegal to amend seven particular parts of the constitution, but the wording of the proposed vote did not mention any of them.

I do not care if you are positive he wanted to, as that does not constitute evidence. He said before the coup that he would leave office in 2010. Maybe he was lying, maybe not. But it deserves more investigation before overthrowing him. Ousting a president requires more than just assumptions about intent.

 

3. At various times, commenters have mentioned Venezuela as intruding (such as with the plebiscite materials) but I have never seen the Supreme Court or Attorney General mention evidence.* Until I do, I think Venezuela is irrelevant. That Zelaya liked Hugo Chavez is not relevant to his standing as president. That Chavez says ridiculous things about invasion is not relevant to Zelaya's case either.


4. Zelaya was unpopular (even with his own party) and many people in Honduras are glad he's gone. This is irrelevant to the law. Surprisingly, I have not yet seen anyone make an argument for how a parliamentary system might have mediated the situation better--Honduran political institutions are so weak it might not have mattered.

* It is also troubling for a Supreme Court justice to use the gossipy phrase "some say" as in "some say it was not Zelaya but Chavez governing."

Very informative, and added to the emilie autumn comment then we can say its typical whats happening. Right wing rich people are scarring poor and convincing them they wont have freedom anymore because many of them could consider Zelaya a comunist or something in that order, its typical in south american countries and that added to the little development of institutions in Honduras added to economic state we have a division in society.

We thought coups where from the last century but this one is here to proove that latin american countries are still afected by things like this and populism(?) coming from right and left wing pwerful minorities in our countries. 



Around the Network
pastro243 said:

Very informative, and added to the emilie autumn comment then we can say its typical whats happening. Right wing rich people are scarring poor and convincing them they wont have freedom anymore because many of them could consider Zelaya a comunist or something in that order, its typical in south american countries and that added to the little development of institutions in Honduras added to economic state we have a division in society.

We thought coups where from the last century but this one is here to proove that latin american countries are still afected by things like this and populism(?) coming from right and left wing pwerful minorities in our countries. 

I agree it's typical. I think argentinian society has evolved to a point that it won't ever support again a coup d'etat (at least it's what I like to think), too many horrible things have happened, and the society views our army with distrust, hate and reject (something that couldn't make me happier).

But I know what you mean, other Latin American countries haven't sadly reached that point.

And to add to your point, one only has to take a look on how is each side composed to know what kind of coup this is

Quoting an Argentinian newspaper, BEFORE the coup

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2009/06/28/elmundo/i-01947826.htm

La oposición está conformada por sectores políticos, empresariales, dueños de medios de comunicación, militares, la jerarquía de las iglesias católica y evangélica. Se oponen a la consulta el Tribunal Supremo Electoral, la Corte Suprema, la fiscalía general, el Congreso y la procuraduría general.
A favor están las organizaciones obreras, campesinas, indígenas, maestros, estudiantes, algunos gremios profesionales y el partido de izquierda Unificación Democrática.

Translated, it would be:

The opposition (to Zelaya) is composed by poilitcal and empresarial sectors, mass media owners, military and the hierarchy of the catholic and evangelic church. The poll is being opposed by the Supreme Electoral Tribune, the Supreme Court, the general prosecution, the Congress and the Solicitor's Office. Supporting Zelaya are the worker, farmer and native organizations, the teachers, students, some professional Unions and the left-wing party Democratic Unification

 

Yeah, kinda telling, what kind of "illegality" this was...




elgefe02 said:

You just proved your ignorance on the matter.

Americans are very ignorant on this matter.  The whole thing got a minor note from the press in favor of Iran news where I live.  The only thing I've heard since was an interview with the (former?) Honduran ambassador saying everything is peachy which sounded really fake.



MrBubbles said:
elgefe02 said:
MrBubbles said:
elgefe02 said:
Man... how easy is to comment on other people country....

He did nothing illegal... this is a left-right fight.
What happened here was a coup, the people in power now are doing exactly what they said Zelaya was going to do. Closing News Channels, arresting people for their ideas, restricting humans rights, establishing curfews, hunting zelaya's friends.
The new president is a corrupt guy, that has a 30 years old political carreer, where he just did nothing. Now he has his people in the congress and courts and he will do whatever he wants he doesnot have opposicion.

Zelaya is not a criminal... those politicians were just scared of his popularity. and Again he did not nothing wrong... yet.

 

a 30% popularity?


You just proved your ignorance on the matter.

 

you just proved your delusion and bias on this matter.  just a pissy zelaya supporter upset his overlord was arrested. 

not really, I am apollitical 100%, people that knows me in this site knows that.

I did not even vote for him... so again you just proved your ignorance. Read other posts in this thread, seem like there is a lot of people more intelligent than you in those forums, which just makes me happy. Get your facts straight next time.

 

 



SSBB FC: 5155 2671 4071 elgefe02: "VGChartz's Resident Raving Rabbit"   MKWii:5155-3729-0989

zexen_lowe said:
pastro243 said:

Very informative, and added to the emilie autumn comment then we can say its typical whats happening. Right wing rich people are scarring poor and convincing them they wont have freedom anymore because many of them could consider Zelaya a comunist or something in that order, its typical in south american countries and that added to the little development of institutions in Honduras added to economic state we have a division in society.

We thought coups where from the last century but this one is here to proove that latin american countries are still afected by things like this and populism(?) coming from right and left wing pwerful minorities in our countries. 

I agree it's typical. I think argentinian society has evolved to a point that it won't ever support again a coup d'etat (at least it's what I like to think), too many horrible things have happened, and the society views our army with distrust, hate and reject (something that couldn't make me happier).

But I know what you mean, other Latin American countries haven't sadly reached that point.

And to add to your point, one only has to take a look on how is each side composed to know what kind of coup this is

Quoting an Argentinian newspaper, BEFORE the coup

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2009/06/28/elmundo/i-01947826.htm

La oposición está conformada por sectores políticos, empresariales, dueños de medios de comunicación, militares, la jerarquía de las iglesias católica y evangélica. Se oponen a la consulta el Tribunal Supremo Electoral, la Corte Suprema, la fiscalía general, el Congreso y la procuraduría general.
A favor están las organizaciones obreras, campesinas, indígenas, maestros, estudiantes, algunos gremios profesionales y el partido de izquierda Unificación Democrática.

Translated, it would be:

The opposition (to Zelaya) is composed by poilitcal and empresarial sectors, mass media owners, military and the hierarchy of the catholic and evangelic church. The poll is being opposed by the Supreme Electoral Tribune, the Supreme Court, the general prosecution, the Congress and the Solicitor's Office. Supporting Zelaya are the worker, farmer and native organizations, the teachers, students, some professional Unions and the left-wing party Democratic Unification

 

Yeah, kinda telling, what kind of "illegality" this was...


Funny thing is, here there is a minority who still uses terms as "my general" when refering to Pinochet, saying he is kind of a hero. Traces are still left of the hate that made our country explode, from both sides.

I doubt a coup would happen here again, but it seems that there are still some  people that live in the cold war, you might have seen them like 2 years ago when pinochet died crying and things like that and shouting like animals to people that dared to call him a dictator or international press that was there to cover everything. Some nazis went to the funeral too, so you figure.