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pastro243 said:
This confirms my beliefs about the bible, just gonna say that people shouldnt guide their life with a book which is clearly not written by god.

God wrote the Bible AND the screenplay for "The Usual Suspects" (but not the screenplay for "The Ten Commandments".....strange).  In your face, pastro243!!

 

 

*high fives God*



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nordlead said:
donathos said:
nordlead said:
donathos said:

I agree with you that strict and psychotic aren't the same thing, but the rule in question seems to be thus: that if a woman defends her husband from attack by grabbing the genitals of the attacker... that the woman's hand should be cut off.

That seems more than "strict" to me.  You don't agree?

Heh, well, stoning for adultery is pretty extreme too is it not?

Yes--I would call them both extreme.  But at least I can understand wanting to punish adultery in some way--I think that cheating is generally a morally reprehensible thing to do.

But this is different.  This is a woman attempting to defend her husband; not morally reprehensible at all, in my view.

ETA: What kind of God would punish a woman for trying to defend her husband?

honestly I don't have an answer for why it is morally reprehensible and I would have to ask one of my friends who is an anthropologist and pastor some questions. And for your final question, it doesn't say the problem is defending her husband, it is how she is defending her husband, but whatever I understand your question, but can't answer it.

@highwaystar

actually, if you refer to the Bible, you are typically referring to the Christian Bible by default. The Jews don't believe the new Testament and hence don't believe the savior described in the old testament came, and Islam is a totally different religion and their god Allah is not the God of the Bible. If you want to group Catholics, protestants, and all the other Christian religions together that is a different story. They all believe the same Bible, but sadly they argue over how to interpret it and thus create different denominations.

@donathos

The Old Testament is part of the Bible, and is worthy of discussion, but has no say on if you are going to heaven or not. As I stated earlier, a lot of the Old Testament shows how man is Sinful in Gods eyes and how we can never be holy. The Old Testament aslo provides a lot of text describing how the world was created, various history, geneology, and prophets describing what will happen in the future (a lot being what will happen in the new testament). But in the end, going to heaven ultimatly comes down to one thing only.

And from here I am out. If you want to talk about this subject, you can pm me. But I prefer not to create another debate on these forums about religion as I can't say it ever ends well, and this is a gaming forum.

Woo-hoo. Someone with some sense.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

Funny list. Keep up the good work.



outlawauron said:
nordlead said:
donathos said:
nordlead said:
donathos said:

I agree with you that strict and psychotic aren't the same thing, but the rule in question seems to be thus: that if a woman defends her husband from attack by grabbing the genitals of the attacker... that the woman's hand should be cut off.

That seems more than "strict" to me.  You don't agree?

Heh, well, stoning for adultery is pretty extreme too is it not?

Yes--I would call them both extreme.  But at least I can understand wanting to punish adultery in some way--I think that cheating is generally a morally reprehensible thing to do.

But this is different.  This is a woman attempting to defend her husband; not morally reprehensible at all, in my view.

ETA: What kind of God would punish a woman for trying to defend her husband?

honestly I don't have an answer for why it is morally reprehensible and I would have to ask one of my friends who is an anthropologist and pastor some questions. And for your final question, it doesn't say the problem is defending her husband, it is how she is defending her husband, but whatever I understand your question, but can't answer it.

@highwaystar

actually, if you refer to the Bible, you are typically referring to the Christian Bible by default. The Jews don't believe the new Testament and hence don't believe the savior described in the old testament came, and Islam is a totally different religion and their god Allah is not the God of the Bible. If you want to group Catholics, protestants, and all the other Christian religions together that is a different story. They all believe the same Bible, but sadly they argue over how to interpret it and thus create different denominations.

@donathos

The Old Testament is part of the Bible, and is worthy of discussion, but has no say on if you are going to heaven or not. As I stated earlier, a lot of the Old Testament shows how man is Sinful in Gods eyes and how we can never be holy. The Old Testament aslo provides a lot of text describing how the world was created, various history, geneology, and prophets describing what will happen in the future (a lot being what will happen in the new testament). But in the end, going to heaven ultimatly comes down to one thing only.

And from here I am out. If you want to talk about this subject, you can pm me. But I prefer not to create another debate on these forums about religion as I can't say it ever ends well, and this is a gaming forum.

Woo-hoo. Someone with some nonsense.


Fixed.

.



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nordlead said:

The Old Testament is part of the Bible, and is worthy of discussion, but has no say on if you are going to heaven or not. As I stated earlier, a lot of the Old Testament shows how man is Sinful in Gods eyes and how we can never be holy. The Old Testament aslo provides a lot of text describing how the world was created, various history, geneology, and prophets describing what will happen in the future (a lot being what will happen in the new testament).

You cant logically seperate the God of the New Testament and the God of the Old Testament, its the same guy.

Furthermore, the 'change' from Old Testament to New Testament can be explained by the natural evolution of society.  When man created religion, it was because he had questions that the best answers for, at the time, involved gods and spirits.  For instance, things that moved, such as man, birds, animals, fish, etc. were alive, but winds and rivers also moved, so it made sense to think of them as alive and having a spirit (Mother Nature).  Thus, in early religion, religious texts and doctrine answered these questions (like Creation) and delved into the nature of the gods behind the explanations.  You should note that Judaism, atleast in its early form, didnt have a Heaven.

In later religions, man's stance with God became more important.  Man not only serves God, but God can also serve man and grant him wonderful gifts and pleasures if he does God's bidding on Earth.  This is most likely due to the growing influence of priests, who used religion to gain wealth and power.  Recall that many Greek temples used cutting edge technology to make visitors think their god was present, so that priest would gain more influence and power at the expense of other priests.  Religion was in competition and subject to social evolution, with the stronger religions attracting more followers, which usually meant that their God would do more for them.

Which is why New Testament Christianity is so much nicer than Old Testament Judaism.  God now gives us eternal paradise, forgives us for almost everything, erased many of the difficult rules we use to follow, and no longer actively destroys mankind on a large scale (no more Flood or Soddom and Gamora instances).



WessleWoggle said:
outlawauron said:
nordlead said:
donathos said:
nordlead said:
donathos said:

I agree with you that strict and psychotic aren't the same thing, but the rule in question seems to be thus: that if a woman defends her husband from attack by grabbing the genitals of the attacker... that the woman's hand should be cut off.

That seems more than "strict" to me.  You don't agree?

Heh, well, stoning for adultery is pretty extreme too is it not?

Yes--I would call them both extreme.  But at least I can understand wanting to punish adultery in some way--I think that cheating is generally a morally reprehensible thing to do.

But this is different.  This is a woman attempting to defend her husband; not morally reprehensible at all, in my view.

ETA: What kind of God would punish a woman for trying to defend her husband?

honestly I don't have an answer for why it is morally reprehensible and I would have to ask one of my friends who is an anthropologist and pastor some questions. And for your final question, it doesn't say the problem is defending her husband, it is how she is defending her husband, but whatever I understand your question, but can't answer it.

@highwaystar

actually, if you refer to the Bible, you are typically referring to the Christian Bible by default. The Jews don't believe the new Testament and hence don't believe the savior described in the old testament came, and Islam is a totally different religion and their god Allah is not the God of the Bible. If you want to group Catholics, protestants, and all the other Christian religions together that is a different story. They all believe the same Bible, but sadly they argue over how to interpret it and thus create different denominations.

@donathos

The Old Testament is part of the Bible, and is worthy of discussion, but has no say on if you are going to heaven or not. As I stated earlier, a lot of the Old Testament shows how man is Sinful in Gods eyes and how we can never be holy. The Old Testament aslo provides a lot of text describing how the world was created, various history, geneology, and prophets describing what will happen in the future (a lot being what will happen in the new testament). But in the end, going to heaven ultimatly comes down to one thing only.

And from here I am out. If you want to talk about this subject, you can pm me. But I prefer not to create another debate on these forums about religion as I can't say it ever ends well, and this is a gaming forum.

Woo-hoo. Someone with some nonsense.


Fixed.

I was refering to the part where highwaystar said that this doesn't apply to just Christians. It does, read what Nordlead said.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

nordlead said:
donathos said:
nordlead said:
donathos said:

I agree with you that strict and psychotic aren't the same thing, but the rule in question seems to be thus: that if a woman defends her husband from attack by grabbing the genitals of the attacker... that the woman's hand should be cut off.

That seems more than "strict" to me.  You don't agree?

Heh, well, stoning for adultery is pretty extreme too is it not?

Yes--I would call them both extreme.  But at least I can understand wanting to punish adultery in some way--I think that cheating is generally a morally reprehensible thing to do.

But this is different.  This is a woman attempting to defend her husband; not morally reprehensible at all, in my view.

ETA: What kind of God would punish a woman for trying to defend her husband?

honestly I don't have an answer for why it is morally reprehensible and I would have to ask one of my friends who is an anthropologist and pastor some questions. And for your final question, it doesn't say the problem is defending her husband, it is how she is defending her husband, but whatever I understand your question, but can't answer it.

@highwaystar

actually, if you refer to the Bible, you are typically referring to the Christian Bible by default. The Jews don't believe the new Testament and hence don't believe the savior described in the old testament came, and Islam is a totally different religion and their god Allah is not the God of the Bible. If you want to group Catholics, protestants, and all the other Christian religions together that is a different story. They all believe the same Bible, but sadly they argue over how to interpret it and thus create different denominations.

@donathos

The Old Testament is part of the Bible, and is worthy of discussion, but has no say on if you are going to heaven or not. As I stated earlier, a lot of the Old Testament shows how man is Sinful in Gods eyes and how we can never be holy. The Old Testament aslo provides a lot of text describing how the world was created, various history, geneology, and prophets describing what will happen in the future (a lot being what will happen in the new testament). But in the end, going to heaven ultimatly comes down to one thing only.

And from here I am out. If you want to talk about this subject, you can pm me. But I prefer not to create another debate on these forums about religion as I can't say it ever ends well, and this is a gaming forum.

I totally respect your reply.  If you can't answer those questions, you can't answer 'em... and that may have nothing to do with your faith.  But, for me, when I read about stuff like that in the Bible, it makes me feel like that is a bad God to worship.  Maybe I'm wrong?  Maybe I go to Hell for it?  But that's what my conscience demands of me.

I realize you don't want to continue the conversation here, and I respect that too, though of course you're welcome to re-join if/when you see fit.  This is a gaming forum, but it's also the Off Topic section, and there are generally discussions of all sorts of controversial stuff here, like abortion, socialism, etc.  (Though I know you know all of that. :)  But religion is often highly-personal, and again, I understand if you want to keep it private.

Finally, just to clear up a little bit about the Bible:  according to Islam, their god Allah *is* the same as the Hebrew/Christian God as found in the Old and New Testaments.  Islam believes that Moses, Jesus and Mohammed were all prophets of God (among several others).  Jews, Christians (inc. Mormons), Muslims: all the same god.  And while Protestants and Catholics, etc., generally have the same Bible, it's not always completely the same.  There are some differences in the books included, in the Old Testament.  For instance, the Catholics include the Maccabbes and the Eastern churches (e.g. Russian Orthodox) have a few books more than the Catholics.

Wouldn't it suck to be a Christian, but have an incomplete Bible? :)



Sorry outlaw, I was in a bad mood. I didn't get any sleeps...



I'm not going to hell :D
~Kami~