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Forums - General - The major problem with US Universal Healthcare plan.

I'd start by getting support first. Get around the table with both a coöperation of all major insurers and if America has it, a council of hospitals. Determine coöperatively how their income is divided, do budgetting on what is needed, what income is necessary and what the costs are.

From these costs and budgets, it should be made possible to determine how much each American should pay to fund healthcare nationally. I thought I read somewhere that it's about $6.900 currently? That's a ludicrous amount and it should be possible to cut in half at least when it's more evenly spread. Funding should be based on the European system then, hope I'm not too chauvinistic here but apparantly it works.
The first step is universal insurance through the workplace. Every entrepreneur, director, CEO should contribute to it's employees health. Cut part of the company taxes to compensate. When a CEO does a buy-in for insurance he or she should be able to get a quantity-discount

(This is also how the costs in Europe can be so low... yes, because I'm never sick I actually fund the costs of care for my 73 year old Grandma's hip. I should've said this sooner but, because there are far more people healthy then sick we can spread the costs more easily. Very social but in the end, we all pay less.)

After that, get additional funding from the citizens through an added insurance scheme/law like I mentioned we have here. And this is the hard part as thís is where the whole "you socialist red scum" comes in because here the citizen feels that he's paying for someone else's hip 5 states west from here. Communication is key here. Make people aware that by paying 30 dollars a month the rest of your life you are cheaper off then getting insurance for.. what do you pay Mafoo? $700 a year? It will of course depend on the budgetting I mentioned before but I think that if our high taxes can cover it then the US will find a way to even out-cheap us ;0.
Of course, legislation will have to be passed for this as it is currently rooted in the American mindset that insurance is still an option. But most important here is not the mindset of the citizen but rather that of all major insurance companies - they will have to agree with a new form of income. Less big customers, more small-payers. They will have to be assured that there income will stay the same - probably even grows if more people are pushed to be insured, both through work and their own perhaps additionally.

When this whole new payment system is in place, the government (I assume that if this ever happens Obama is out of office or nearing the end of a second term) will have to find ways to make healthcare more efficient and cut the costs in general so that citizen-contribution can be decreased. It would be more beneficial if this could be done before the new payment system is in place of course but really, that would be a project with no possible quick ending.



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Esmoreit said:
They should also reform the insurance-program. I'm now going to speak for the Netherlands but I assume that it's the same case for the majority of the EU.

What we have is simply a case of everyone is obligated to have basic insurance (for me that's about 30 euro a month). If you are below a certain income, the government will compensate for that through your welfare-fee.
Now, for anyone with enough cash you can get further basic insurance - for instance, I pay 50 a month but that is because I have a full dental-coverage.

Then there is a no-claim thing, additional insurance, etc. etc. but I guess that's what it takes for the US aswell.

Freck.. 50 euro's a month? wtf.. what insurance do you have? Are you still a student? or do you get a monthly fee from the government? I'm like paying double that amount.. :(



 

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Good luck getting cooperation. Everyone in the Medical Industry have been fighting against government healthcare since at least the Nixon era.

Hospitals and Doctors are willing to work with Obama to fix insurance because the Insurance companies have been eating them alive... but even then Obama is seen to be in the pockets of the Insurance agencies.

Hence why his plan is "force everyone to get insurance."

Health Insurance reform would be an easy thing to get across to the people if he wanted too... you'll find very few people actually sympathetic of healthcare companies.  They're only in the news when they do somethign bad.

The problem with government insurance is rationing... and by forcing people to take part in it makes private insurance more expensive.   Including plans that may save you from said rationing.



@ Nikkom, I get 50 back from the taxes... and my parents handled it very smartly I must say.

Kasz, I know that coöperation is a bitch to accomplish. Here in the Netherlands they are merely trying to pass a new billing system through and it leads to heated debates. I have seriously seen representatives from the insurance-council being sweared off stage by middle-aged men from administration due to their lay-out of the plans... passing a whole new payment structure demands even more understanding.

I just have faith that Charismatic Barry can pull it off. At some point both parties should see that the current payment system leaves millions of Americans at risk, ensures higher then necessary costs and actually lower quality of care if the WHO is to be believed.



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ironman said:
Actually the major problem will be rationing healthcare. This is something that happens will ALL forms of national healthcare. Just look at Canada's or the UK's national healthcare. People are unable to get treatment because they are too old, too sick, the treatment would cost the government too much.
I do agree the healthcare system needs reform, but this will only make it worse. The reason our healthcare costs so much right now is because of litigation, lawyers suing for everything they possibly can, insurance (doctors have to buy insurance that will cover them should they get sued...and since being sued is very likely, the insurance is very expensive) Also, people who are responsible have to pay for those who are not. For example, some people never pay for their health care (illegal aliens, people with no money, people with no health insurance), this drives both healthcare costs, and health insurance costs, up.

Lawsuits account for less than 2% of the total costs.  The largest expense is the parasitic executives compensation, from what I've heard they sucked up a combined total of $800 BILLION last year.



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Every year the number of people receiving regular medical services increases, the ammount of services per individual increases, and the cost associated with those services increases; which (as you can imagine) translates into an out of control increase in the cost to deliver healthcare. To make matters worse, low cost alternative services do not get created for variety of reasons; and people seem unwilling to put the work to ensure that their health is protected ... and these problems exist regardless of who delivers the healthcare services.

 



TheRealMafoo said:

It's not Universal.

This healthcare program is not expected to support everyone, only those without insurance. The problem is, that means those with private insurance will be paying for insurance twice.

I would expect millions of people to drop private insurance, and just take the insurance they are already paying for from the government. I don't think the government can then afford it.

Thoughts?

First of all, the people behind the healthcare plan realize this.

Secondly, you already pay for other people's health insurance anyway.  Hospitals dont turn people down for life-threatening illnesses, its not only unethical but it would also mean a hefty lawsuit.  Instead, hospitals treat the patient and send them a bill in the mail that they know wont be paid.  So who pays for it?  You do, and you have been paying for other people's health insurance for a long time.  Be it a public hospital that takes more money from tax payers or a private hospital that increases the costs for everyone else.

So Mafoo's opinon on this issue is useless.  His noble quest not to pay for other people's healthcare has already failed.  He's just arguing over how he will pay for other people's insurance.



ManusJustus said:
TheRealMafoo said:

It's not Universal.

This healthcare program is not expected to support everyone, only those without insurance. The problem is, that means those with private insurance will be paying for insurance twice.

I would expect millions of people to drop private insurance, and just take the insurance they are already paying for from the government. I don't think the government can then afford it.

Thoughts?

First of all, the people behind the healthcare plan realize this.

Secondly, you already pay for other people's health insurance anyway.  Hospitals dont turn people down for life-threatening illnesses, its not only unethical but it would also mean a hefty lawsuit.  Instead, hospital treats the patient and sends them a bill in the mail that they know wont be paid. 

So who pays for it?  You do, and you have been paying for other people's health insurance for a long time.  Be it a public hospital that takes more money from tax payers or a private hospital that increases the costs for everyone else.

You should have read a few posts of mine down, and saved the time (as I already said this).

And FYI: I don't pay a dime for healthcare. I put in the effort in life to make sure I have a job where someone else pays it for me.



TheRealMafoo said:
ManusJustus said:
TheRealMafoo said:

It's not Universal.

This healthcare program is not expected to support everyone, only those without insurance. The problem is, that means those with private insurance will be paying for insurance twice.

I would expect millions of people to drop private insurance, and just take the insurance they are already paying for from the government. I don't think the government can then afford it.

Thoughts?

First of all, the people behind the healthcare plan realize this.

Secondly, you already pay for other people's health insurance anyway.  Hospitals dont turn people down for life-threatening illnesses, its not only unethical but it would also mean a hefty lawsuit.  Instead, hospital treats the patient and sends them a bill in the mail that they know wont be paid. 

So who pays for it?  You do, and you have been paying for other people's health insurance for a long time.  Be it a public hospital that takes more money from tax payers or a private hospital that increases the costs for everyone else.

You should have read a few posts of mine down, and saved the time (as I already said this).

And FYI: I don't pay a dime for healthcare. I put in the effort in life to make sure I have a job where someone else pays it for me.

That's a common missconception. Everybody who has healthcare, pays for it. If you have healthcare from an employer, that is part of your compensation packege, if you weren't getting it, then you would be payed more. if you are getting it from the government, you are paying through taxes. 

Anyway, this system that we use induces wastefull healthcare spending, it doesn't cost any more to go to the doctor for a common cold, than a sever respitory infection. And that is the problem. People waste health insurers money, that is another thing that drives up the cost. 



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Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

The problem with the U.S. universal health care is that it's not going to help everyone in the universe. If there are aliens many galaxies away, we're still not giving them health care.