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Forums - Gaming - What's wrong with JRPGs today?

Torillian said:
Kasz216 said:
deadt0m said:
A lot of things are wrong with JRPGs today.

#1 - They are hardly ever turn based. And yes, I know that this is a matter of opinion. I just vastly prefer turn based jrpgs to "action" RPGs. Western developers, especially Bioware, are so far ahead of the curve in terms of action RPGs that the Japanese attempts fall flat for me.

#2 - Graphics, although I guess that isn't really a new issue. When consoles moved to CDs, graphics became a huge selling point, not just for RPGs but for consoles as a whole. It had a particular effect on the RPG market, though. RPG developers started spending a large amount of their dev time and budgets on sweeping, visually impressive cinematics in order to capture the graphics-hungry new consumers. Unfortunately, it came at the expense of gameplay and especially story writing. When characters were sprites, they had to be extremely compelling for a gamer to really relate to the story. Now, though, you can just have a party of spiky-haired androgynous white people, give them big swords, and sprinkle the game with cutscenes of them swinging said swords, and it's a lot easier way to get a game out. They are trying to sell games on visual appeal instead of actual meaningful content. As technology has improved, this has become more and more pronounced.

#3 - Enix :P

The problem with action RPGS is they dumb down the action aspect so the RPG aspect is more important.

In a regular action game for example you can take down any monster if your skilled enough.  Action RPGs usually make your character so stiff you can't help but be hit... etc.

Action games with RPG elements are going to be better nearly every time.

Have you tried SMT: Devil Summoner 2?  If these are what you dislike about action RPG's I think you might really like it.  It's all about dodging and blocking damage instead of just taking it and then healing.

And I would disagree with you about Kingdom Hearts, Riachu.   I think in that game you couldn't dodge most attacks.

I am just saying that not all Japanese developed Action RPGs are bad.  I think it is rather childish to put down someones opinion just because you disagree with it.  How would you feel if I put down a game you really loved?



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not a whole lot, it's a video game, not my life lol.



dahuman said:
not a whole lot, it's a video game, not my life lol.

Thanks for answering but I really asking that question to Torillian.



video games will be video games =P emotional attachment should be for your friends, family, and loved one(s?)



Kasz216 said:
deadt0m said:
A lot of things are wrong with JRPGs today.

#1 - They are hardly ever turn based. And yes, I know that this is a matter of opinion. I just vastly prefer turn based jrpgs to "action" RPGs. Western developers, especially Bioware, are so far ahead of the curve in terms of action RPGs that the Japanese attempts fall flat for me.

#2 - Graphics, although I guess that isn't really a new issue. When consoles moved to CDs, graphics became a huge selling point, not just for RPGs but for consoles as a whole. It had a particular effect on the RPG market, though. RPG developers started spending a large amount of their dev time and budgets on sweeping, visually impressive cinematics in order to capture the graphics-hungry new consumers. Unfortunately, it came at the expense of gameplay and especially story writing. When characters were sprites, they had to be extremely compelling for a gamer to really relate to the story. Now, though, you can just have a party of spiky-haired androgynous white people, give them big swords, and sprinkle the game with cutscenes of them swinging said swords, and it's a lot easier way to get a game out. They are trying to sell games on visual appeal instead of actual meaningful content. As technology has improved, this has become more and more pronounced.

#3 - Enix :P

The problem with action RPGS is they dumb down the action aspect so the RPG aspect is more important.

In a regular action game for example you can take down any monster if your skilled enough.  Action RPGs usually make your character so stiff you can't help but be hit... etc.

Action games with RPG elements are going to be better nearly every time.

Tales of Vesperia is a wonderful action rpg. It actually takes skill to win boss battle (even more so to get the achievements). Put the difficulty setting on Hard or Unknown and you will get raped for sure.



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Riachu said:
Torillian said:
Kasz216 said:
deadt0m said:
A lot of things are wrong with JRPGs today.

#1 - They are hardly ever turn based. And yes, I know that this is a matter of opinion. I just vastly prefer turn based jrpgs to "action" RPGs. Western developers, especially Bioware, are so far ahead of the curve in terms of action RPGs that the Japanese attempts fall flat for me.

#2 - Graphics, although I guess that isn't really a new issue. When consoles moved to CDs, graphics became a huge selling point, not just for RPGs but for consoles as a whole. It had a particular effect on the RPG market, though. RPG developers started spending a large amount of their dev time and budgets on sweeping, visually impressive cinematics in order to capture the graphics-hungry new consumers. Unfortunately, it came at the expense of gameplay and especially story writing. When characters were sprites, they had to be extremely compelling for a gamer to really relate to the story. Now, though, you can just have a party of spiky-haired androgynous white people, give them big swords, and sprinkle the game with cutscenes of them swinging said swords, and it's a lot easier way to get a game out. They are trying to sell games on visual appeal instead of actual meaningful content. As technology has improved, this has become more and more pronounced.

#3 - Enix :P

The problem with action RPGS is they dumb down the action aspect so the RPG aspect is more important.

In a regular action game for example you can take down any monster if your skilled enough.  Action RPGs usually make your character so stiff you can't help but be hit... etc.

Action games with RPG elements are going to be better nearly every time.

Have you tried SMT: Devil Summoner 2?  If these are what you dislike about action RPG's I think you might really like it.  It's all about dodging and blocking damage instead of just taking it and then healing.

And I would disagree with you about Kingdom Hearts, Riachu.   I think in that game you couldn't dodge most attacks.

I am just saying that not all Japanese developed Action RPGs are bad.  I think it is rather childish to put down someones opinion just because you disagree with it.  How would you feel if I put down a game you really loved?

I didn't see him putting down ARPG's, but specifiying why he doesn't like them.  I then mentioned an ARPG that I think solves the issues he has with the genre, and disagreed with your suggestion of Kingdom Hearts because I feel it has the issues Kasz mentioned.

On to the question, I would be annoyed and try to argue against the points you brought up to downplay the game I love.  As can be seen by my participation in the recent Zelda vs. Ico threads.



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deadt0m said:
A lot of things are wrong with JRPGs today.

#1 - They are hardly ever turn based. And yes, I know that this is a matter of opinion. I just vastly prefer turn based jrpgs to "action" RPGs. Western developers, especially Bioware, are so far ahead of the curve in terms of action RPGs that the Japanese attempts fall flat for me.

#2 - Graphics, although I guess that isn't really a new issue. When consoles moved to CDs, graphics became a huge selling point, not just for RPGs but for consoles as a whole. It had a particular effect on the RPG market, though. RPG developers started spending a large amount of their dev time and budgets on sweeping, visually impressive cinematics in order to capture the graphics-hungry new consumers. Unfortunately, it came at the expense of gameplay and especially story writing. When characters were sprites, they had to be extremely compelling for a gamer to really relate to the story. Now, though, you can just have a party of spiky-haired androgynous white people, give them big swords, and sprinkle the game with cutscenes of them swinging said swords, and it's a lot easier way to get a game out. They are trying to sell games on visual appeal instead of actual meaningful content. As technology has improved, this has become more and more pronounced.

#3 - Enix :P

#1 - I somewhat agree with you. It seems to be a minus these days if a game has turn-based battles. But I also think that experimenting is important to move the genre forward. I like what Bioware and Bethesda did with Mass Effect and Fallout, mixing RPGs with shooters. FFVII:Dirge of Cerberus was an attempt at doing this, but because the gameplay was clunky it failed, but I urge Square Enix to keep improving on what they started. I also like it when developers mix other genres into their RPGs, like the sidescrolling platform elements in Valkyrie Profile, the sidescrolling action in Odin Sphere, the strategy in Final Fantasy Tactics and Valkyria Chronicles, and the puzzle gameplay in Puzzle Quest.

 

#2 - You know, games had crap storylines in 2D RPGs on the SNES as well... And it's actually easier to relate to simple sprites and character graphics than something highly detailed. It's like reading a book compared to watching a movie. You might not agree, but it's a common fact in the animation and comic industry. If characters have detailed, but for some reason, annoying design these days, it becomes so overly evident, while in games with simple graphics it's not so big an issue. Also, you could read much more between the lines in older games, because of the technical limitations you had to flesh out certain aspects with you own mind.

Games like Lost Odyssey and Persona 4 shows that you can make games focusing on graphics and/or design, and still tell a good story.

I think it's amusing you're implying that Final Fantasy VII had less focus on story and gameplay than previous games. What Final Fantasy VII did however, was that it made JPRGs appealing to a mass western audience and it opened the door for more RPG developers to publish their games in the west. And with more games, came more crap. 

 

#3 - Enix aren't really masters of storytelling, I'll give you that. But personally I loved Dragon Quest VIII, just because it was such a nostalgic experience, but in a beautiful package. That game is also a great example of that something simple can be better than something overly complicated. It's easily the most charming RPG last generation. The Star Ocean games had good gameplay in my opinion, but the storylines (as is the case in most tri-ace games) were pretty bad. The main story isn't necessarily awful, but the horrible script and voice acting ruins what might have been slightly good. I had troubles finishing Star Ocean 2 because of the horrible translation and dialogue, even though I enjoyed the gameplay and challenging battles. And the big twist in Star Ocean 3 is the most retarded thing I've ever encountered in an RPG to date. The game was actually pretty enjoyable up until that point where it became almost unbearable.



I don't think there is anything wrong with new jrpg:s. All (old and new) of them usually suck, with the exception of Lost Odyssey.



1. The lack of RPG on the PS3 (I blame Sony for this).
2. Western this, western that.
3. Focus on graphics less on story. Great story is what makes a great JRPG.



The problem with JRPGs today is that they have stuck with the old successful formula of last generation and made little or no improvements in the JRPG games for this generation. The safe philosophy is wearing very thin with gamers who deserve something new and refreshing in regards to JRPGs. There have been a few good JRPGs this generation but a lot of average JRPGs have been pushed onto gamers.

Hopefully the overall quality of the JRPGs will be improved with Final Fantasy series games and fans will be satisfied with games in that genre.