??????   this guy...........

That's such a fucking joke.

We'll see when Forza 3 struggles to sell a couple million and Gran Turismo 5 is flying off shelves. Forza 3 doesn't offer anything that Gran Turismo doesn't (now that GT will have damage). Gran Turismo is no longer a bumper cars simulator thanks to damage and will solidify its spot as best racing franchise in the world.

can I have a link to that. I find it surprising that a pro racer would use a console sim as practice when there are plenty of better PC sims, or when they could just go out to the track with their free tires, cars, etc.

this guy totally sold me on Forza. i mean, if i were to get GT5 it may cauze me to go out and buy a piece of shit mitsubishi and ruin my life

what PC sims????? Im not sure about the pro thing but i remember reading in car in driver about how accurate the game. its generally accepted that it is thee car sim....look at the link posted a couple pages ago.

For those refuting the claims that Forza is moving the genre forward in comparison to GT, can you at least give reasonable arguments? I haven't heard one thing thus far from anyone saying GT is in fact the one pushing the genre forward that has proven anything. More pro racers play it? Not moving the industry forward. Better graphics? I suppose it's moving the industry forward a bit, but ultimately it can be the same game if it looks like Forza or if it looks like GT. It doesn't affect the game at all. More cars/tracks? Very cool. Selection is great. Moving the genre forward though? Hardly. It's just a dick measuring contest.

I would just like to hear from fans of GT what they have added to their games that is unlike anything we've seen in Forza. What Forza has advanced is evident. It's been said throughout this thread. What has GT done to actually move the genre forward? What does Forza need to catch up on?

Uh Live for Speed it was posted before in this thread as well, I remember it came out 2 years before GT4 (released 2003) and was much more advanced in physics, tuning, damage, your brakes would even lock up if you just mashed on it. It didn't get specific car handling down right because it didn't have brand name cars or etc. but with the tuning options you could pretty much get it similar to such and such car. Graphics aren't pretty either but this was a game made by 3 people, here's some awards amazing for a 3 man team.

PC Gameworld's 2003 review of Live for Speed S1 by Walter Hurdle scored 89% and said "A very strong simulation that offers fun and a high level of realism."[7]

Justin Kranzl of APC magazine called the S1 release "the best PC racing simulator ever."[citation needed]

Pelit magazine's 2004 review of LFS' S1 release by Mika Äärilä scored 92/100 and said "Saloon cars and meticulous simulation. Absolute cream of the crop." (free translation from Finnish)[8]

Bytesector.com's 2005 review of S2 release said "Nothing short of going to a track actually compares to the experience. Live for Speed is, by far, the most intense and demanding game I've ever played."[9]

COMPUTEAM Race Authority states that Live for Speed is "the world's most advanced commercially available motor racing simulator."[10]

In 2005, AutoSimSport magazine gave LFS their "Best simulation" award and Blackhole Motorsports website readers voted to give LFS the following awards:[11]

* BHM "Game of the year" award
* BHM "Best multiplayer" award
* BHM "Best physics" award

well to start...attention to detail.from the tracks to how each car actually performs. gt does this far better than anyone thats why saying the pros use it is valid...before gt there was just racing games. gt is a true driving sim......I would also like to add i know nothing of forza never played. but i do know what gt offers. i asked about previous forza titles and all i got was graphics and damage nothing really crazy is there anything im missing?

Driving makes me sleepy.

......oh yea that game.....i almost forgot........