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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - 360 maxed out, PlayStation3 isn't.

selnor on 06 June 2009
AFFLICTION said:
BMaker11 said:
I'm reposting this because it got overlooked on the first page......and it's exactly what the thread has turned into:

I guess you haven't been here very long. If you were, you'd know that everyone on VGC are experts on the consoles and know when a system is maxed out (without even developing for the system), and that developers don't know shit (who have been developing for the consoles for years). Add in a little bit of "When was the last time they made a good game?" and then NO developer has any credibility, because the quality of a game is subjective. Add a dash of "I think" and "there's no way they're right", then VGC members actually become the developers themselves! Which is even funnier because these members believe that developers don't know shit. The result: The same posting members DON'T KNOW SHIT!!

So of course they don't agree

this

I ask you this. Do you feel the same over the multitude of developers about 6 months ago that said PS3 was maxed out? What about the developers that said 360 is more powerful than PS3. I guess you trust them to yeah?

EA made a comment, whilst at the same time Forza 3, Alan Wake, Mass Effect 2, Splinter Cell, Lost Planet 2 and Assasins Creed 2 were all shown running on 360's. Every single one of these games is argueably the best of any console graphics yet. With our very own eyes, we are still yet to see the 360 maxed. Many thought Gears 2 was 360 limit. Well Gears 2 got it's arsed canned in graphics on 360 at this years E3. I guess the 360 keeps physically proving people wrong. :)



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Mvp4eVa on 06 June 2009
Slimebeast said:
Million said:

If there was 10X the polygon count in a Forza 3 car then it would clearly trump GT5 cars but that isn't the case , GT5:P cars are still argued to look superior.


No. Only a fanboy would still argue that GT5p cars look better than Forza 3's.

GT5p:


Forza 3:



The reflections on the Forza 3 car are far more advanced.

Theres is a big diference between the 2 photos GT5p looks cartoony now compared to Forza 3. 

Look at the grass on GTP5, there is no details on them, the Corvette's color behind the BMW doesn't look right, that BMW's shine looks fake.

Now look at that B'MA from Forza 3, it looks like it's an actual picture of the real car ..

Funny thing was when GT5P came out it made Forza 2 look cartoony and GT5P was the real thing that came close to reality..

If nobody sees a big difference between the two photos they need to get thier eyes check out..

I not favoring no one, I said the same thing when they were comparing Forza 2 a GT5p, Gt5p was the best looking hands down..

I'm just stating the obvious..



My Trigger Happy Sixaxis controller

 


                            

AFFLICTION on 06 June 2009
selnor said:
AFFLICTION said:
BMaker11 said:
I'm reposting this because it got overlooked on the first page......and it's exactly what the thread has turned into:

I guess you haven't been here very long. If you were, you'd know that everyone on VGC are experts on the consoles and know when a system is maxed out (without even developing for the system), and that developers don't know shit (who have been developing for the consoles for years). Add in a little bit of "When was the last time they made a good game?" and then NO developer has any credibility, because the quality of a game is subjective. Add a dash of "I think" and "there's no way they're right", then VGC members actually become the developers themselves! Which is even funnier because these members believe that developers don't know shit. The result: The same posting members DON'T KNOW SHIT!!

So of course they don't agree

this

I ask you this. Do you feel the same over the multitude of developers about 6 months ago that said PS3 was maxed out? What about the developers that said 360 is more powerful than PS3. I guess you trust them to yeah?

EA made a comment, whilst at the same time Forza 3, Alan Wake, Mass Effect 2, Splinter Cell, Lost Planet 2 and Assasins Creed 2 were all shown running on 360's. Every single one of these games is argueably the best of any console graphics yet. With our very own eyes, we are still yet to see the 360 maxed. Many thought Gears 2 was 360 limit. Well Gears 2 got it's arsed canned in graphics on 360 at this years E3. I guess the 360 keeps physically proving people wrong. :)

i know its not maxed as of yet it just everyone on this site thinks they know everything about the systems just because they play on them but i'd much rather take a dev over a fanboy not saying you are one just speaking in general :)



Squilliam on 06 June 2009
Million said:
Adjudicator said:
Maybe the 10x polygons is total for both inside and outside the car. I think I heard they didn't have a cockpit view before. If that's the case then it doesn't render all 1,000,000 at any given time on screen.
Tech folk can correct me if that is at all a possibility

I'd be having trouble believing a  Forza 3 car had anything more than 300,000 polygons per car ( infact you'd have to give proven technical information to make me believe they were anything over GT5:P's standard of 200,000 per car). I'm not a game developer but it's clear that even doubling polygon count is a difficult task , Turn 10 can't possibly be claiming they've increased the polygon count per car 5X (that's similar to a leap in hardware)

To put it into perspective Polyphone Digital spend a months worth in man hours to produce 1 car in GT5 , 1 month . I seriously doubt that Polyphone Digital with a much longer history in developing car racing games than Turn 10 is less capable of modeling cars efficiently. The above information leads me to belive to things.

 

(1) like you said Turn 10 might be spinning the figures to include the inside of the car , maybe the enviroment also.

(2) Turn 10 are straight up lying.

(3) Information has been mis-translated.

Ok, heres my best answer for this.

Tessellation isn't as flexible as rendering each polygon individually. It makes certain curves as easy to render as flat surfaces. However with dynamic shapes it doesn't work as well. So for example even if they have 1,000,000 polygons the limitations of tessellation mean that they cannot look as good as 1,000,000 polygons rendered individually, but its still better than say 200,000 polygons. Just not by as much as you would expect from the count alone. Does this make sense and sound plausible to you at the same time?

Even simpler, it makes rendering something like a wheel extremely easy, but dynamic curves don't benefit the same for applying tessellation.



Tease.

TowlieFTW on 06 June 2009
d21lewis said:
Didn't I read somewhere that Red Faction maxed out the 360? Sorry, Soderland. It's already been done.

Yup and modnation racer or whatever has maxed out the PS3, looks like both are maxxed out time to start a new gen.

Im actually very impressed Forza 3 looks as good as it does and runs on 360, and it even runs at 60fps.



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XxXProphecyXxX on 06 June 2009

Here we go again

a random fanboy logic > developers....YIKES!



Zizzla_Rachet on 06 June 2009
Akvod said:
Slimebeast said:
Akvod said:
Slimebeast said:
Heavy Rain doesn't count, because it's not exactly hard to make QTE's look good compared to real time graphics.

???


I mean you can't compare Heavy Rain - a QTE game - to a normal game like Alan Wake, and take it as an example of how PS3 is graphically better, while the X360 is 'maxed out'.

QTE's - Quick Time Events - are pre-rendered cut scenes, so they're easy to make good looking compared to real time rendered gameplay graphics (just look at games like God of War and Star Wars Unleashed: the QTE's look better than the regular gameplay). The X360 could easily produce as good looking QTE's like those in Heavy Rain.

I'm not knowledgeable about these technical things, but I don't see how the graphics are pre-rendered in QTE's... Don't they use the same character models? Having played GOW I and II, along with seeing RE4, the graphics look the same. If you're talking about animation, that's different, but I don't see any loading going on, and the replacement of character models and skins when it's a QTE...

Heavy Rain also looks just the same in real time gameplay, as well as when it's in QTE...

 

 

 

 

Slimebeast your mistaken....

QTE are in real time....But since I understood what you meant,to an extent you are right....Since QTE's are on Rails It is possible for Devs to up the visuals during a QTE since the Camera will be fixed.

PreRendered is for stuff like CGI scenes and used in games like the early Resident Evil...

I always felt that Uncharted Had Prerendered stuff in it's enviroments..But i can't not confirm this...



 



Bitmap Frogs on 06 June 2009
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Here we go again

a random fanboy logic > developers....YIKES!

 

Cool! 

Because there have been developers going on the record saying the PS3 is a waste to work on since due to the architecture none of the techniques developed are to be used on the homogenous many-core future we are moving to. Other developers have criticized the PS3 on the basis of weak GPU, bottlenecks in the design and overall archictural issues on the system, dismissing it as something poorly designed. Other developers dismiss the Cell CPU as not appropiate for game code and a huge hurdle for the PS3.

You backing those developers, right? Oh you mean you only back statements depending wether they suit you or not?





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

slowmo on 06 June 2009
Bitmap Frogs said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Here we go again

a random fanboy logic > developers....YIKES!

 

Cool! 

Because there have been developers going on the record saying the PS3 is a waste to work on since due to the architecture none of the techniques developed are to be used on the homogenous many-core future we are moving to. Other developers have criticized the PS3 on the basis of weak GPU, bottlenecks in the design and overall archictural issues on the system, dismissing it as something poorly designed. Other developers dismiss the Cell CPU as not appropiate for game code and a huge hurdle for the PS3.

You backing those developers, right? Oh you mean you only back statements depending wether they suit you or not?

You spotted his massive contradiction too then.  No point correcting him though as he'll be on his soap box again in the next thread like the other desperate Sony PR team in here.  Amazing how they all flock to the Microsoft discussions when they get a free chance to have a dig.



NightAntilli on 07 June 2009

If we look at the performance of Call of Duty 4 on both systems, and also look at the performance of World at War on both systems, the X360 has less framedrops and framerate issues than the PS3. And now you are gonna tell me that the X360 is being maxed out and the PS3 is not?

-______________-

And oh, before anyone starts saying I have no proof for those framerate stuff...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/call-of-duty-4-engine-analysis

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/call-of-duty-world-at-war-engine-analysis



Truth does not fear investigation