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Forums - Gaming - In-depth comparison of the big three's motion controllers.

gergroy on 03 June 2009
FaithRaven said:
gergroy said:
FaithRaven said:
For OP's information:

1. There is no such thing as 3D camera. To achieve the "3d camera" effect you need more than 1 actual camera. Cameras takes pictures (motion pictures), and pictures as everyone should be aware of are 2D not 3D. For example the image you see on the screen when playing a 3D game it's 2D. Being able to rotate your character in-game makes the game 3D, but the actual image you see it's still 2D.

2. "However, even if the room is completely dark and the camera in Natal is unable to see anything, the 3D camera continues to function."

Images are created by the light that reflects on objects. With no light theres no image. This is teached in primary school I think.


wow, for something that doesn't exist, a simple google search sure brings up a lot of results of 3d camera's... :) 

Although, you do have a point, as 3d camera's all have more than 1 lens and usually are capturing images at different depth to create the 3d effect.  So I don't see how natel can operate in the dark, but I'm not saying it isn't possible.  After all, there are all sorts of ways for camera's to capture ambient light in low light situations, like night vision and what not.

So you're telling me that I'm wrong and then that I'm right ? :) The key is in your words: "3D effect" which is very different from real 3D. Real 3D camera actually means multiple cameras placed around the subject so they can capture plenty of angles.

In the second point you talk about low light while the discussion was about, let me quote, "complete dark".

On the other hand, thanks for agreeing with me :)

you were wrong that there is no such thing as 3d camera's, you were right about natal not working well in the dark.  The point I was making is that it would actually be pretty hard to be completely dark in a house.  So there will always be some light, even when the lights are off, and there are plenty of ways out there for camera's to see in the dark.



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gergroy on 03 June 2009
rafichamp said:
Natal will be the most expensive, Sony's motion controller will be priced the same as Wii's motion plus


wii controller = 40 dollars

Wii motion plus = 20 dollars

nunchuck = 20 dollars

= 80 dollars *4 = 320 dollars

Natal will be more than this?



NJ5 on 03 June 2009
gergroy said:
rafichamp said:
Natal will be the most expensive, Sony's motion controller will be priced the same as Wii's motion plus


wii controller = 40 dollars

Wii motion plus = 20 dollars

nunchuck = 20 dollars

= 80 dollars *4 = 320 dollars

Natal will be more than this?

According to NPD data the average Wii owner has around 2 Wii Remotes (and of course one is bundled with the console, which means subtracting at least 60 from your calculation).

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

JaggedSac on 03 June 2009
gergroy said:
FaithRaven said:
gergroy said:
FaithRaven said:
For OP's information:

1. There is no such thing as 3D camera. To achieve the "3d camera" effect you need more than 1 actual camera. Cameras takes pictures (motion pictures), and pictures as everyone should be aware of are 2D not 3D. For example the image you see on the screen when playing a 3D game it's 2D. Being able to rotate your character in-game makes the game 3D, but the actual image you see it's still 2D.

2. "However, even if the room is completely dark and the camera in Natal is unable to see anything, the 3D camera continues to function."

Images are created by the light that reflects on objects. With no light theres no image. This is teached in primary school I think.


wow, for something that doesn't exist, a simple google search sure brings up a lot of results of 3d camera's... :) 

Although, you do have a point, as 3d camera's all have more than 1 lens and usually are capturing images at different depth to create the 3d effect.  So I don't see how natel can operate in the dark, but I'm not saying it isn't possible.  After all, there are all sorts of ways for camera's to capture ambient light in low light situations, like night vision and what not.

So you're telling me that I'm wrong and then that I'm right ? :) The key is in your words: "3D effect" which is very different from real 3D. Real 3D camera actually means multiple cameras placed around the subject so they can capture plenty of angles.

In the second point you talk about low light while the discussion was about, let me quote, "complete dark".

On the other hand, thanks for agreeing with me :)

you were wrong that there is no such thing as 3d camera's, you were right about natal not working well in the dark.  The point I was making is that it would actually be pretty hard to be completely dark in a house.  So there will always be some light, even when the lights are off, and there are plenty of ways out there for camera's to see in the dark.

Doesn't matter because Natal generates its own light via pulses of infrared.  Of course the RGB camera would not work, but that is not what allows the hardware to detect movement anyway.



saicho on 03 June 2009
rafichamp said:
Natal will be the most expensive, Sony's motion controller will be priced the same as Wii's motion plus

It would be a great deal if Sony's motion controller would be only $20... Wiimote is $40 without motion plus...



MikeB predicts that the PS3 will sell about 140 million units by the end of 2016 and triple the amount of 360s in the long run.

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WereKitten on 03 June 2009
JaggedSac said:

Natal actually uses a depth sensor to get 3D information. It consists of an infrared projector combined with a monochrome CMOS sensor. So lighting conditions make no difference what so ever.

It is probably based off of the time-of-flight model where the sensor sends pulses of light(in this case, infrared) and calculates the distance based on the time till a reflection is generated.

I thought time-of-flight was used to map very distant objects? Actually if you look at the hardware bar pics, it seems to have two sensors side by side. So it could just be "binocular vision", reconstructed into a depth map by some dedicated hardware. Or is one of them the RGB camera?



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

JaggedSac on 03 June 2009

One of them is an RGB camera.  It might not be using time-of-flight model, but it is definitely sending pulses of infrared light.  The Johnny Lee guy is working on it now and basically equated it to a 2D array of lasers.  2D array as in 1000 X 1000(example) grid of lasers getting depth data.



Usul on 03 June 2009

Interesting read.



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kitler53 on 03 June 2009

no offense to your thread but i thought your indepth analysis lacked depth or analysis.   soo...i did a quick search of my own and found this, seems like a pretty good explanation of the technology (natal) as a whole as well as it's limitations. 

 

13 min long demo of this "3D depth sensor" from a Microsoft research tech fest in 2007.

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/Rory/Microsoft-Research-TechFest-XNA-a-depth-sensing-camera-an-LCD-projector-and-some-genius/

(if some can embed that i'm having issues).

 

also, i found this which is interesting to say the least, http://www.gesturetek.com/3ddepth/introduction.php

notice at the bottom: "selected gesturetek licenses: eyetoy, xbox 360."



mai on 03 June 2009

Just wondering at what speed WM+ could capture motion?