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Forums - Microsoft - Should we welcome Xbox 360 to computer gaming?

thetonestarr on 01 June 2009

The 360 can be accepted as a PC when development becomes open, when word processors and other generic apps can be readily available, etc.



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Renelius on 01 June 2009
Khuutra said:
PCs are generally defined by moddability, aren't they? The Xbox 360 is too closed in terms of hardware and software to be considered a PC.

Agreed. I don't understand how people in this thread are saying that the fact that you "need" to constantly upgrade a PC is a negative.

You don't "need" to constantly upgrade a PC. I upgrade about every 3 years, and thats just because I like to keep all my graphics settings on the highest settings possible. Even then, you can usually get away with just upgrading your video card. I think I add RAM and upgrade processor about every other version of windows that comes out - as MS likes to hog all my system resources running windows in the background.

I think the upgradability of a PC is a positive. You are never stuck with an obsolete system... theres always room to improve it. And those improvements are only expensive if you insist on the latest and greatest machine that will give you 120 FPS in the newest games (which is unnecissary imo).



shio on 01 June 2009
Khuutra said:
PCs are generally defined by moddability, aren't they? The Xbox 360 is too closed in terms of hardware and software to be considered a PC.

PCs weren't always "defined" by moddability though. It was only in the mid 90's that modding of PCs and games took flight. Anyway, it is possible to modify your Xbox 360, from simple aesthetics to switching HDD's, to more legally-strained modding and such.



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Khuutra on 01 June 2009
shio said:
Khuutra said:
PCs are generally defined by moddability, aren't they? The Xbox 360 is too closed in terms of hardware and software to be considered a PC.

PCs weren't always "defined" by moddability though. It was only in the mid 90's that modding of PCs and games took flight. Anyway, it is possible to modify your Xbox 360, from simple aesthetics to switching HDD's, to more legally-strained modding and such.

Still a closed system. I could keep a PC for twenty years and play all those games the entire time if I kept the parts updated. That's not possible with the Xbox. I'm always going to have to buy the new one.



thetonestarr on 01 June 2009

You can build a system that's good for ten years (sans video card) easily. Build a computer that's top-notch at the time you build it, and it'll be able to run EVERYTHING that comes out for ten years without a problem. You'll probably have to replace your video card once or twice during that period, but both of those replacements can be simple



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Ronster316 on 01 June 2009
max power said:
Ronster316 said:
Bottom line is that if you want to keep playing the best PC games then you simply have to keep upgrading.

No... you don't.


Bioshock 2, COD:MW2, Mass Effect 2, all of these games will be designed to run on the same hardware as their predecessors.


Hell, Crysis 2 will likely have LOWER requirements than the first one, since it will also be available on the PS3 and 360.


But again max power this comes down to how powerful your PC is in the first place.

Sure, your PC can run the latest games now............. but 2 years down the line?

exhibit A........... Certain games may not run on your PC without upgrades/installing A. B. C.

exhibit B........... All games for 360 simply require you to put the disc in the tray.

As i said, PC gaming is good, but 360 gaming is completely hassle free.



max power on 01 June 2009
Ronster316 said:
max power said:
Ronster316 said:
Bottom line is that if you want to keep playing the best PC games then you simply have to keep upgrading.

No... you don't.


Bioshock 2, COD:MW2, Mass Effect 2, all of these games will be designed to run on the same hardware as their predecessors.


Hell, Crysis 2 will likely have LOWER requirements than the first one, since it will also be available on the PS3 and 360.


But again max power this comes down to how powerful your PC is in the first place.

Sure, your PC can run the latest games now............. but 2 years down the line?

exhibit A........... Certain games may not run on your PC without upgrades/installing A. B. C.

exhibit B........... All games for 360 simply require you to put the disc in the tray.

As i said, PC gaming is good, but 360 gaming is completely hassle free.

It is more hassle, you won't get any argument from me on that...

But I don't think you're understanding me.  You're not going to have to upgrade hardware to play COD:MW2 (or ANY cross-platform title), because it will be designed to run on the PS3/360 as well.  And cross-platform titles are 90-95% of PC games these days. 

 

So, a current PC is pretty much guaranteed to last until the PS4/XBox720 come out, which is exactly how long a PS3/360 will last you.



Slimebeast on 01 June 2009

Fine fine, but there's still games on X360 that you can't play on PC. I need both, and in the end of a generation it's tempting to buy the rest of the consoles because there's s many exclusives for each.



nightsurge on 02 June 2009
nightsurge said:
shio said:
nightsurge said:
shio said:
nightsurge said:
shio said:
Ronster316 said:
Price.

Super powered PC.............. £2000 (with upgrades constantly needed)

VS

Super powered 360.......... £129

If i can get almost everything i can on a PC for a fraction of the price, i'm gonna take the cheaper option...... More value for money.

Almost no one buys £2000 PCs. Nowadays a £400 can do a much better job at running games than any console. PC prices have decreased dramatically in the last few years. Hell, you can now build a PC that plays games better cheaper than a PS3.

Many people consider now that PC gaming is cheaper than Console gaming due to the cheaper prices of games, which are often $10-$20 less than the console versions. You also don't need to play $50 every year just to play online.

Unfortunately your argument has no merit seeing how you cannot buy a PC at retail that costs $400 and plays games anywhere near the level of the 360 or PS3.

Not many people shop around for weeks to find the most disclosed deals to make such a budget custom built PC.  Sure many people build their own PCs, but many more just buy them at retail and those never have good enough video cards for $400 or less.

Not for $400, but you can find a gaming PC for $500 at retail. A friend of mine just bought a $600 gaming laptop which easily plays better than any console.

But it doesn't matter because all the extra money you put initially in your PC will later be saved from buying the much cheaper PC games, and not having to pay for playing for online.

Links to such deals?  Remember, the Xbox 360 and PS3 can output HD games at 1920x1080 resolution, so the video card necessary for a PC or Laptop to do such a thing would need to be a 9800GT/HD4770 minimum, and to have max settings and solid frame rates you would probably need around the GTX 260/HD 4870 coupled with a fast dual core CPU or better.

My friend's $600 laptop has a 9800GT 512MB.

And come on, X360 and PS3 can output at 1920x1080, but the thing is... they don't! Halo 3 only had like 640p resolution, and GTA4 only had 600p in both X360 and PS3 version, well below the so-called "HD experience". Both consoles can't take much more than that. Hell, even Rockstar said that the graphical quality of the console versions of GTA4 is around the "low settings" of the PC version.

Any modern GPU will be able to output HD resolution given the game, it only depends on how much does the game push for graphics.

A 9800M GT you mean.  Technically a laptop would need to be even higher because the mobile counterparts to the desktop cards are not equal in power.

Also, the games true res may be low, but the Xbox 360 and PS3 scale them internally and still output an image that is 1080p.  Where did you friend happen to get a $600 laptop at retail that has a 9800M GT in it?  Lowest I have seen to have such a card was $1000.  Also, where are the links to those $500 retail PCs that have a good video card?

A 9500GT cannot support gaming at high settings with AA enabled like the 360 can, so don't try to give me one of those PC configs.  I'll lower it and say a 9600GT/HD4670 minimum.

Also, the Xbox 360 is striving to be an entire social networking experience in and of itself.  That's why it has Facebook and Twitter and all these other great features built in/added in.  PC's can do them to, yeah, but this is a unique experience designed to take advantage of the living room and the larger TV.

Still waiting...



max power on 02 June 2009
nightsurge said:
nightsurge said:

A 9800M GT you mean.  Technically a laptop would need to be even higher because the mobile counterparts to the desktop cards are not equal in power.

Also, the games true res may be low, but the Xbox 360 and PS3 scale them internally and still output an image that is 1080p.  Where did you friend happen to get a $600 laptop at retail that has a 9800M GT in it?  Lowest I have seen to have such a card was $1000.  Also, where are the links to those $500 retail PCs that have a good video card?

A 9500GT cannot support gaming at high settings with AA enabled like the 360 can, so don't try to give me one of those PC configs.  I'll lower it and say a 9600GT/HD4670 minimum.

Also, the Xbox 360 is striving to be an entire social networking experience in and of itself.  That's why it has Facebook and Twitter and all these other great features built in/added in.  PC's can do them to, yeah, but this is a unique experience designed to take advantage of the living room and the larger TV.

Still waiting...

Well, I'm not going to speak to your whole point... but your argument that the PS3 and 360 are somehow superior because they internally scale to 1080p is meaningless.  Any LCD-type television would do that for them, and scaling inevitably makes things look WORSE, not better.  A 600p image will look best scaled to 600p, not anything else.