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Forums - Sony - Well, here it is. Heavy Rain gameplay from Pre E3 press event.

Reasonable on 22 May 2009
WereKitten said:
Reasonable said:

 

Yeah but I take the view there's no point using a medium unless its better - i.e. I don't want an average movie disguised as a game because it has a few contextural controls.  Make a movie or write a novel.

If you're going to have combat then in a game it should be combat controls - not press Triangle quickly and watch.  Or make it a true adventure and don't have combat as such - allow options to play out the scene without response time QTEs.  Look at Grim Fandango as an adventure title.  I always have full control and I can interact, investigate, etc.  There's no reason not to use a similar approach but simply have a mature story, etc.  But if QD can't work out how to allow me to dictate the combat I don't want them to offer me four QTE choices - I want them to remove any choice for that combat, play it out, and move me to the next interactive element of the story.

Sorry, but QTEs are simply a workaround for wanting a certain action that the developers don't think control offers so instead they simply ask you to hit a button - Triangle to dodge left and block with a chair, Square to dodge right and toss a knife, etc.  But QTE means the outcome has already been plotted, which I'm not interested in.

I will absolutely reserve final judgement until I see the thing - and like Farenheight I'll probably even buy and play to see how good/bad the developer gets it, because I want titles like this.  But in Farenheight it was obvious that they were reaching way past their abilities as a developer - both in terms of how the gameplay would work and narrative (which started very well but ended a mess).

 

 

 

"Make a movie or write a novel" but you seem to like Grim Fandango and point and click adventures?

This is a genre, like point and click adventures were of their own genre. Wasn't the plot there already decided by the writers? Didn't they have to script all possible responses to the players actions? Isn't that a strictly contextual response, even though there's no real time action?

If you read the Eurogamer hands-on, they explicitely talk about the investigation mode through augmented reality that is available to the FBI agent. Is that all that different from a point and click "investigate" verb? The authors also state that they will show very different kinds of gameplay in the upcoming months.

I for one have played Infocom textual adventures, semi-graphical adventures from Magnetic Scrolls and point and click since Maniac Mansion times. They were all different, but I enjoyed the different ways they entertained and challenged me. And I will wait to judge this new genre of adventure game, prejudices are useless.

 

 

What I'm clearly saying is - don't have combat unless you have the mechanics.  I love adventure games, point and click or like Grim Fandango - but I don't want QTE and fake combat shoved in.  Having a few seconds to press a button so your character executes a perfect roll and dodges something is lame in my opinion (and on the evidence of Farenheight a majority of gamers would agree).

What I'm saying is it would be better to drop such lame combat attempts and stick to pure adventure game approaches.

As pretty much all reviews / gamers who tried it agreed Farenheight was a flawed attempt at something interesting.  Right now everything I've seen indicates this is heading to be a better thought out, more attractive but similarly flawed experience due to the poor controls.

Did you read what I wrote?  Clearly I've played a lot of adventure titles, from Myst to text based to Lucasarts, etc.  They worked (when well developed) because they didn't go outside the limit of their approach.  I believe QD are following a fundamentally flawed approach with QTEs to what they are trying to do.

I'd like to be surprised by the game and find it works like a dream, but the video clearly shows the same weak mechanics for trying to get interactive action into the title.

 

 



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Shadowblind on 22 May 2009
Reasonable said:
WereKitten said:
Reasonable said:

 

Yeah but I take the view there's no point using a medium unless its better - i.e. I don't want an average movie disguised as a game because it has a few contextural controls.  Make a movie or write a novel.

If you're going to have combat then in a game it should be combat controls - not press Triangle quickly and watch.  Or make it a true adventure and don't have combat as such - allow options to play out the scene without response time QTEs.  Look at Grim Fandango as an adventure title.  I always have full control and I can interact, investigate, etc.  There's no reason not to use a similar approach but simply have a mature story, etc.  But if QD can't work out how to allow me to dictate the combat I don't want them to offer me four QTE choices - I want them to remove any choice for that combat, play it out, and move me to the next interactive element of the story.

Sorry, but QTEs are simply a workaround for wanting a certain action that the developers don't think control offers so instead they simply ask you to hit a button - Triangle to dodge left and block with a chair, Square to dodge right and toss a knife, etc.  But QTE means the outcome has already been plotted, which I'm not interested in.

I will absolutely reserve final judgement until I see the thing - and like Farenheight I'll probably even buy and play to see how good/bad the developer gets it, because I want titles like this.  But in Farenheight it was obvious that they were reaching way past their abilities as a developer - both in terms of how the gameplay would work and narrative (which started very well but ended a mess).

 

 

 

"Make a movie or write a novel" but you seem to like Grim Fandango and point and click adventures?

This is a genre, like point and click adventures were of their own genre. Wasn't the plot there already decided by the writers? Didn't they have to script all possible responses to the players actions? Isn't that a strictly contextual response, even though there's no real time action?

If you read the Eurogamer hands-on, they explicitely talk about the investigation mode through augmented reality that is available to the FBI agent. Is that all that different from a point and click "investigate" verb? The authors also state that they will show very different kinds of gameplay in the upcoming months.

I for one have played Infocom textual adventures, semi-graphical adventures from Magnetic Scrolls and point and click since Maniac Mansion times. They were all different, but I enjoyed the different ways they entertained and challenged me. And I will wait to judge this new genre of adventure game, prejudices are useless.

 

 

What I'm clearly saying is - don't have combat unless you have the mechanics.  I love adventure games, point and click or like Grim Fandango - but I don't want QTE and fake combat shoved in.  Having a few seconds to press a button so your character executes a perfect roll and dodges something is lame in my opinion (and on the evidence of Farenheight a majority of gamers would agree).

What I'm saying is it would be better to drop such lame combat attempts and stick to pure adventure game approaches.

As pretty much all reviews / gamers who tried it agreed Farenheight was a flawed attempt at something interesting.  Right now everything I've seen indicates this is heading to be a better thought out, more attractive but similarly flawed experience due to the poor controls.

Did you read what I wrote?  Clearly I've played a lot of adventure titles, from Myst to text based to Lucasarts, etc.  They worked (when well developed) because they didn't go outside the limit of their approach.  I believe QD are following a fundamentally flawed approach with QTEs to what they are trying to do.

I'd like to be surprised by the game and find it works like a dream, but the video clearly shows the same weak mechanics for trying to get interactive action into the title.

 

 

 

 

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S.T.A.G.E. on 22 May 2009
Vanversive said:
I think this is great. Reminds me of the old adventure games I used to play growing up, which sadly got destroyed by other genres like shooters and rpgs. Good to see them using that idea and taking it to another level.

 

 

This reminds you of adventure games? It's a psychological thriller movie.



hatmoza 2.0 on 22 May 2009

After a lot of thinking and a lot of video browsing, I've decided not to give 2 shits about this title anymore.



S.T.A.G.E. on 22 May 2009
Avarice28 said:
after the one link that CGI has posted I was totally blown away at how the glasses worked with the Jayden. The over-all graphic fidelity is very high, those saying otherwise should check out CGI post and see for yourself. Mind you the OP link is not a video capture and is not in HD and is running a low resolution. Everyone knows that ps3 games look worlds better in HD than in sd, so I know the haters are always going to hate....but come on this game looks fantastic.

 

 

I saw the video. It looked like a shitty attempt at a CGI movie.



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perpride on 22 May 2009

haha i love it. Another PS3-exclusive that is already being bashed by people who will never play it. Wasn't this multiplat. at first? If so I can see why there is suddenly so much hate for it.

OT: 2000 page script? Seems like there are many different paths you can take in this game. I also love the fact that there are 4 main characters who can die. At first I thought the entire game would be action sequences, but its good to see that you can actually walk around and explore...the sunglasses for the first main character and the whole investigation aspect they bring into the game sounds extremely fun. All in all I don't think we've seen enough for this to say anything yet. The graphics are definitely top-notch and the developer has a pretty good track record.



WereKitten on 22 May 2009

@Reasonable
You simply seem too rigid on what is an "adventure" game.

I played great adventure games that mixed the "pure" textual adventure with RPG elements such as combat, stat-augmenting items etc. The Hobbit was such a game, the outcome of the fights was semi-random like in an RPG.

In Myst, that you named, the exploration is interspersed with small logical puzzles that are more like self-contained flash mini-games, and are more extraneous to the plot than the action scenes were in Fahrenheit.

All of these are ok, but using QTE based action scenes is "weak"? I think they're simply a different tool, with which they can deliver good or bad content and narration. After all, if in an adventure you're lending your intelligence to the character, as in you're solving predetermined situations with your inventive, I don't see anything wrong with you also having to lend your reflexes or endurance when the character is tested for them, again in predetermined situations.

I loved most of Fahrenheit, and what I loathed of it has to do with the way its plot falls apart by the end, not the way its mechanic worked.
Some of what they delivered with those QTEs was great and if the dream of the giant fleas in the office space was a cut-scene instead it would not have worked the same for me.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

Blood_Tears on 22 May 2009

I think the game looks great and still interested in it.



Nik24 on 22 May 2009

Awesome! Now I'm really looking forward to this game.
What did you expect?



TheGuardianFID on 22 May 2009

I think some of the ladies and gentlemen here are misunderstanding what the main focus of Heavy Rain is!!! The graphics, which IMO look freaking amazing, are great, as are the animations, but the focus or heart of the game lies in puting you, the player in these intense life or death situations, that is part of the reason why the game has no GAME OVER!!! If you're in a strugle for your life and you miss a punch here and there, you don't tell your attacker timeout and rinse and repeat!!! In this game the QTEs act as every single one of those punches and actions which in the consequences of the game could mean life and death!!! That's why it's vital to get each action right, because once you're into the game and the more you start caring about these characters, those life and death situations are gonna become, more and more intense, because you're gonna care if your character lives or dies and you'll strugle and fight to keep them alive!!! That sort of imersion is what makes Heavy Rain so special, I hope I helped some of you understand the focus of the game a little better, besides it's still early, the game will improve it's graphics and animations as developement continues, I have faith!!!



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