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Forums - General - Looks like GM will file bankruptcy.

TheRealMafoo on 15 May 2009
HappySqurriel said:

I do wonder what this will mean for Ford ...

The bailout and bankrupcy of GM and Dodge will translate into some dilike of their brands from their current consumer base, will dramatically weaken the Union with its membership (you wouldn't feel happy if you paid expensive union dues for years, a large portion of your co-workers were laid off, and you had to take a 25% or more reduction in wages and benefits) and there are several areas of the car market where Ford is competitive and most European and Asian car makers are not (for example inexpensive trucks).

5 years from now Ford could be selling far more cars, at a higher margin with more reasonable costs.

 

You mean consumers could end up with better products for less money?

I hate it when you let Capitalism work. I would much prefer that government prop up companies that can't stay in business any other way.



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highwaystar101 on 15 May 2009
mrstickball said:
highwaystar101 said:

Just let general motors fail. If you can't make it then tough sh!t.

Here's an idea for them to make money. Build cars that people outside of USA actually want.

Interestingly enough, GM, like most US automakers, were doing very well outside of the US. The major problem was that they were doing horrible in the states, and their overseas gains weren't enough to offset their poor performances here.

 

Really? they must be doing very badly in America then, because the brands they offer in England aren't exactly run of the mill. Mind you they may have the niche market here in some cases.



akuma587 on 15 May 2009

The reason why the government (under Bush) intervened to help out GM and Chrysler a few months ago was because the economic situation was bleak at best. There was too much bad news at once, and allowing those companies to go under at that time would have been like dropping an anchor through a sinking ship.

Now that the economy doesn't look quite so bleak, bankruptcy is a viable option as it won't really drag the rest of the economy down to the extent it would have if the government had let GM and Chrysler slip into Chapter 11 a few months ago. If a few billion dollars was all it cost to avoid the economy driving off a cliff, that was a bargain.

It was never really about the car companies themselves. It was much more about the effect it would have on the economy as a whole if they went under at that point in time. That is what a lot of people are missing.



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mrstickball on 15 May 2009
highwaystar101 said:
mrstickball said:
highwaystar101 said:

Just let general motors fail. If you can't make it then tough sh!t.

Here's an idea for them to make money. Build cars that people outside of USA actually want.

Interestingly enough, GM, like most US automakers, were doing very well outside of the US. The major problem was that they were doing horrible in the states, and their overseas gains weren't enough to offset their poor performances here.

 

Really? they must be doing very badly in America then, because the brands they offer in England aren't exactly run of the mill. Mind you they may have the niche market here in some cases.

It's a very wacky American car world.

According to here, in Q1 of 2007, GM lost it's seat as the #1 automaker worldwide. It was beaten by Toyota, which sold 2.35m cars to GM's 2.25m cars. What's interesting is that, according to the article, GM only sold 677,000 of said cars in the US - leaving over 1.5 million cars (or 2/3rds of it's entire sales) to overseas divisions. Incredible.

Here, we see that GM continues to sell 2/3rds of its cars overseas, and any profits it manages comes from it's overseas divisions.

And finally, GM posted a 200% increase in overseas revenue ($5.4b to $15b) in just 3 years - 03 to 06.

In the end, it really makes you question how stupid they, and the rest of the Big 3 are when it comes to their US divisions.

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

highwaystar101 on 15 May 2009
mrstickball said:
highwaystar101 said:
mrstickball said:
highwaystar101 said:

Just let general motors fail. If you can't make it then tough sh!t.

Here's an idea for them to make money. Build cars that people outside of USA actually want.

Interestingly enough, GM, like most US automakers, were doing very well outside of the US. The major problem was that they were doing horrible in the states, and their overseas gains weren't enough to offset their poor performances here.

 

Really? they must be doing very badly in America then, because the brands they offer in England aren't exactly run of the mill. Mind you they may have the niche market here in some cases.

It's a very wacky American car world.

According to here, in Q1 of 2007, GM lost it's seat as the #1 automaker worldwide. It was beaten by Toyota, which sold 2.35m cars to GM's 2.25m cars. What's interesting is that, according to the article, GM only sold 677,000 of said cars in the US - leaving over 1.5 million cars (or 2/3rds of it's entire sales) to overseas divisions. Incredible.

Here, we see that GM continues to sell 2/3rds of its cars overseas, and any profits it manages comes from it's overseas divisions.

And finally, GM posted a 200% increase in overseas revenue ($5.4b to $15b) in just 3 years - 03 to 06.

In the end, it really makes you question how stupid they, and the rest of the Big 3 are when it comes to their US divisions.

 

Huh, that is very interesting, thanks for posting. So if anything GM really should have got it's act together in it's home territory.



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Final-Fan on 15 May 2009

MO' LIKE COMMUNIST MOTORS!

It just bothers me when I see people dancing on graves. [edit: mostly NOT aimed at OP]

@ mrstickball: That would be completely hilarious -- GM not making cars in the US, that's a mindblowing idea.



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TheRealMafoo on 15 May 2009
akuma587 said:

The reason why the government (under Bush) intervened to help out GM and Chrysler a few months ago was because the economic situation was bleak at best. There was too much bad news at once, and allowing those companies to go under at that time would have been like dropping an anchor through a sinking ship.

Now that the economy doesn't look quite so bleak, bankruptcy is a viable option as it won't really drag the rest of the economy down to the extent it would have if the government had let GM and Chrysler slip into Chapter 11 a few months ago. If a few billion dollars was all it cost to avoid the economy driving off a cliff, that was a bargain.

It was never really about the car companies themselves. It was much more about the effect it would have on the economy as a whole if they went under at that point in time. That is what a lot of people are missing.

 

Sorry, but this is BS. The market is what the market is. Trying to save it by killing it slowly at a much larger cost, makes a worse market.

Saying it saved people in any way, is 100% wrong.



TheRealMafoo on 15 May 2009
Final-Fan said:
MO' LIKE COMMUNIST MOTORS!

It just bothers me when I see people dancing on graves. [edit: mostly NOT aimed at OP]

@ mrstickball: That would be completely hilarious -- GM not making cars in the US, that's a mindblowing idea.

 

I am not dancing on graves. I realized they were dead 10 months ago. I have been pissed that they were not allowed to restructure and turn a corner back then. To allow a dead company to linger for months is cruel, and in no way helpful.



Final-Fan on 15 May 2009

[edit: You read the edit, right?]



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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Final-Fan on 15 May 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
akuma587 said:
The reason why the government (under Bush) intervened to help out GM and Chrysler a few months ago was because the economic situation was bleak at best. There was too much bad news at once, and allowing those companies to go under at that time would have been like dropping an anchor through a sinking ship.

Now that the economy doesn't look quite so bleak, bankruptcy is a viable option as it won't really drag the rest of the economy down to the extent it would have if the government had let GM and Chrysler slip into Chapter 11 a few months ago. If a few billion dollars was all it cost to avoid the economy driving off a cliff, that was a bargain.

It was never really about the car companies themselves. It was much more about the effect it would have on the economy as a whole if they went under at that point in time. That is what a lot of people are missing.
Sorry, but this is BS. The market is what the market is. Trying to save it by killing it slowly at a much larger cost, makes a worse market.

Saying it saved people in any way, is 100% wrong.

So you're saying that the timing of GM's failure would make no difference to the economy?



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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