very good read
| The_vagabond7 said: The US has been controlled by the whims of men, not the constitution for a very long time. It's just that before it was businesses using lobbyists for their own self interest pulling the strings on capitol hill with no regard for the constitution, and now it's a different group pulling the strings for what is most likely their self interest. I'm not a deontologist, I could care less what ideologies this violates. The constitution is not my religion (not that I'm religious to begin with). If a different set of men want to ass rape the american bible, instead of a different set of men ass raping the american bible, hell, let 'em. I'm a consequentialist. How many successful countries don't follow the U.S. constitution and do just fine? How many are far more left leaning than the US and do just fine? Hell the U.S. Doesn't follow the constitution and it does fine. This is just a religious fight. If you think what the government is doing to the free market is wrong, ask yourself if you think what the free market was doing with the government was right. They both have fucked the constitution, both of them are utterly self serving, both are very damaging to the populous in the name of growing bigger and more powerful, and by now it's just an ideological squabble. People becoming infuriated and protesting over what amounts to "Sony vs Nintendo" level of arguments. |
I agree that it's been going on for a very long time. I don't agree however, that it's OK.
TheRealMafoo said:
I agree that it's been going on for a very long time. I don't agree however, that it's OK. |
You would just prefer that lobbyist control capital hill than capital hill control business because of a particular ideology. Or at the very least your far less adverse to the former than the latter.
Edit:I gotta get back to work, but I'll check back this evening to see where this has gone.
You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.
| The_vagabond7 said: You would just prefer that lobbyist control capital hill than capital hill control business because of a particular ideology. Or at the very least your far less adverse to the former than the latter. Edit:I gotta get back to work, but I'll check back this evening to see where this has gone. |
I think you misunderstand what’s happening here. Now that Obama has the county behind him, we have business controlling a far more powerful part of Washington.
This is not Washington controlling business. It’s what it’s always been, just on yet again, a whole new level.
I am against both Washington controlling business, and business controlling Washington. It’s a very simple fix. Remove the power from Washington, and there is nothing to control. The hard part is you now have to rely on an organization voting themselves out of power, and that’s never going to happen.
Well it's the same reason that big medical companys are suddenly willing to cut a bunch off their bottom line.
Obama likes to threaten the CEOs of big companies.
"Do it my way or i'll pass a law that'll be even worse."
I agree it is bullshit. Particularly because the priority on payments. I think bankruptcy in general is bullshit but I guess it is better than having a debters gaol where an individual could be arrested for not paying the debts his father accrued.
So...this is unspeakable, but waterboarding is OK?
I don't agree with these actions, but I can't say I feel very sorry for the creditors who got screwed. They were refusing to cooperate, whereas many other creditors besides the UAW were willing to cooperate, and that is what led Chrysler to bankruptcy. They were playing chicken and ended up losing.
If they are so upset about it, file a lawsuit. That is what the rule of law allows you to do. The Constitution doesn't guarantee that the government won't violate your rights. But it does typically guarantee you will have some recourse if they do. That is why we adopted it in the first place.
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke
It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...." Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson
| akuma587 said: So...this is unspeakable, but waterboarding is OK? I don't agree with these actions, but I can't say I feel very sorry for the creditors who got screwed. They were refusing to cooperate, whereas many other creditors besides the UAW were willing to cooperate, and that is what led Chrysler to bankruptcy. They were playing chicken and ended up losing. If they are so upset about it, file a lawsuit. That is what the rule of law allows you to do. The Constitution doesn't guarantee that the government won't violate your rights. But it does typically guarantee you will have some recourse if they do. That is why we adopted it in the first place. |
I don't agree with these actions, but I can't say I feel very sorry for the people who got waterboarded. They were refusing to cooperate, whereas many other people besides the peopled waterboarded were willing to cooperate. They were playing chicken and ended up losing.
I figured we should just apply your logic everywhere.
I don't feel particularly sorry for them either. However, you are comparing human rights with bankruptcy law, which doesn't really make any sense.
There are legal venues to be remunerated in civil law for something like this. You can't really get any kind of remuneration when you have been waterboarded 186 times, not even monetary remuneration usually because of sovereign immunity.
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke
It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...." Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson
Even if you assume that waterboarding is the most vile torture ever performed by an individual in the history of the world, the President of the United States (along with the house and the senate) willfully violating the constitution is far more dangerous ...
As long as the constitution stands a crime committed by a member of the government can be brought to justice because (eventually) the checks and balances on power that the constitution provides will provide the opportunity and the motivation to investigate these crimes. If the constitution falls the government can institutionalize injustice, and then the most horrible crimes will be committed on the citizens the government is supposed to serve.
People today really need to stop saying "Never Again" on the anniversaries of the holocaust and start reading their history and understanding how a government was turned against its people. Under the Weimar Republic the German people sacrificed rights a little at a time, until a megalomaniacal narcissistic socialist took control of the country and started eliminating the remaining rights because of manufactured crises. People didn’t start cheering for gumboots and blitzkriegs, they started cheering for an end of the economic disaster and were willing to sacrifice anything to make it happen.
If Obama was really worth the hype he could find a way to deal with the economic "crisis" without undermining the very document that protects the rights of citizens; and prevents the United States from being just another totalitarian dictatorship with a charismatic leader.
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