The estimation I made takes those into account.... but they make little difference because guess what, marketing and development happen on all 3 consoles   there is probably less spent on marketing for PS2 now than the PS3, as the PS2 is old.... which means even more is being spent on the PS3 yet it is still bearing no fruits.

I am pretty sure they spent a lot more marketing the PS2 n 2000-2003 but that still made a profit.

What I roughly did was look at the fiscal years ending 2003 onwards to try estimate how much the PS2 and PSP would be capable of making per year (I did look into more detail in each report to make sure I didn't miss any factors that skew the numbers).... at it's best the PS2 brought in almost $1billion (admitedly a slight help from the lingering PS1 in 2003, but it won't have accounted for much at all)
You can see the effect the PSP had on the gaming segment in the year ending March 2004 (it will have been in heavy development at the end of the year, ready to launch late 2004) then again in the FY end Mar2005 the PSP was clearly sucking money away... probably over half a billion that year (but that included the launch, which is an expensive time)

The FY end Mar2006 there definately looks to be some PS3 development loss, possibly closing in on half a billion. And then the biggie, FY end Mar 2007 where the division managed to lose $2 billion.... the PS2 might have been past it's best by then, but it would still be capable of pulling in well over half a billion profit, and the PSP will have been profitable by that time too (albeit a small amount) so the PS3 launch likely lost close to $3 billion alone.... then again in the following year the division lost over $1 billion, which if taking out PS2 and P is probably more like $1.5 billion for PS3 alone

So that's $5 billion, and that doesn't include this past year which is yet to be reported fully, so we shall see what the division lost in a few days.

5 billion in the red is a crapload of money. No wonder Kutaragi got eased out.

Exactly... ther is no doubt that the PS3 will lose more money than the Xbox did, if the person above me has the $6 billion figure right then the PS3 is likely above that already (and a quick glance at the financials, I suspect the $6 billion estimate is including money spent developing the X360
(and of course it includes Zune development, but probably not much Zune profit... when was Zune released?)

So that might be cut down to $5 billion or so.... which the PS3 has definately already managed.

And MS can take a lossbetter than Sony.... they had/have big cash reserves and enormous yearly profits in other divisions. Sony may take in huge revenues each year, but they generally had a lot less profit, and I believe have debts to pay rather than reserves of cash.

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I can't be bothered reserching this, but if I were to split apart PS1 and 2 as well (and P while I am at it) here would be my guesses. (up to March 2008)

PS1: Over $3 billion made before the PS2 released, but it's probable there are some development costs missing from the year ending March 1995, which I can't find data for... but there is also the Nintendo partnetship, so it's also probable a chunk of PS1 development costs were actually shouldered by Nintendo before they betrayed Sony to use Panasonic.... this is the most hazy bit so I will just assume that there were minimal costs involved before the FY ending March 2006.

So, PS1 profits up to PS2 launch around $3.3-3.5 billion, then Sony took a loss in the PS2 launch year, but obviously PS1 still profited... so likely over $5 billion profit was made for the PS1.

PS2: around $2.5-3 billion, and still going up slowly (maybe 300-400k this last year)

PSP: Probably around break even at the end of March 2008, this last year would probably put it a safe way into profitability by a few 100k.

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So overall, PS2 probably made slightly over half what the PS1 made (but as I said, PS2 still going), PSP was about break-even this time last year, and PS3 has wiped most of it out.

The hard conclusion we can make of all this is:

- It is reasonable to say that the PS3 will never make up for its investment. Already at a 5 billion loss will be impossible to catch up be for the end of its life. It will require a success greater then PS1 and PS2 to turn the whole thing to profit over its lifetime and with the hard competition they’re getting from 360 it’s not likely to happen.

Out of interest is the overall profit from SCE from the PS1 to now positive or negative?

^It's $2.2 billion positive as of March 2008, (check the thread largedarryl posted) the first 3 quarters of the past fiscal year are also in the red, but I can't remember how much ($200-300 million I think)

It remains to be seen what this last quarter managed, but I am positive it won't take a $2 billion loss probably a further 500 million at worst, or at best about even.

Ah, found it.... the first three quarters of FY ending March 2009 saw $50 million profit, $400 million loss, and $4 million profit, so about $350 million loss in total.... this is operating income by the way, not sure about net income.

TWRoO said: ^It's $2.2 billion positive as of March 2008, (check the thread largedarryl posted) the first 3 quarters of the past fiscal year are also in the red, but I can't remember how much ($200-300 million I think) It remains to be seen what this last quarter managed, but I am positive it won't take a $2 billion loss probably a further 500 million at worst, or at best about even.

Even then, it's quite interesting that Nintendo in one year has made twice as much profit as SCE made in 13 years.

you're right.

I wonder is Sony will ever break even on the PS3, my guess is no. I do think the losses will greatly decrease with time though because I am not mentally retarded. More importantly how much money has PSP, PS1, PS2 made?

If the Playstation's 'blacksheep' can decrease losses to less than a billion before all is said and done Sony will have done well to get something out this disaster.

ooh NJ5 that is quite something and it has to be said I need some links to back that up.

I know the first Xbox is in the red for 6 billion $, so M$ is still the winner/looser. If u include the losses on the 360, too I am sure that SONY's would be much less.