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Forums - PC - EU likely to fine Intel for anti-competitive behavior

heruamon on 13 May 2009
NJ5 said:
@heruamon: Maybe you missed this post with the specifics of the deals Intel made:

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/post.php?id=2151200

Yeah, I missed that posting, and it's pretty damning, but should this then go thru a court case, and get it deliberated, since to be quite fair...this is as reported by the same EU regulators that are applying this unprecedented fine...so they are a bit bias, I would say.

Edit: After scourge the news for more info, I definitely think the EU had a basis to slam Intel with a fine, but because the fine so outstrips the violation, imho, you are kinda fixated on the amount, and not the charges.  There are two parties involved in these cases...Intel and the said parties, and amazingly, you see nothing against those companies.  Sure, Intel offered it to them ,but they took it...whereas other companies didn't, otherwise AMD would have never gotten ANY market share.  Subsequent to that time, AMD has put out a clearly inferior product, and they funny thing is Intel's Market share is increasing without these extensive rebates, not decreasing, based on sound engineering, not gimmicks.

I DO standby my forecastthat Apple is next...



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Faxanadu on 14 May 2009
koffieboon said:
Considering some Americans here feel Europe has nothing to do with this Intel should just pay back all profits it ever made in the EU instead of paying the fine.

Good idea. Or like I said, just ban them from ever doing business in the EU ever again.

 



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Jo21 on 14 May 2009
NJ5 said:
Dodece said:
@NJ5

Unfortunately it will be seen as nationalism, because the European Union itself has a number of unethical, anti competitive, pro monopoly trade practices under its own belt. So it will read as I am allowed to cheat, and you are not allowed to cheat. Further more it always reads like government profiteering. So is just really being served, or is it just more pocket lining.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but if you're talking about anti-competitive European companies, a lot of them have been fined by the EU no less.

Several airlines: http://www.eyefortransport.com/content/five-major-airlines-plead-guilty-price-fixing (scroll down for the European antitrust investigation)

Siemens: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,2324897,00.html

BASF: http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersNews/idUSBRU00618720071212

Car glass makers: http://article.wn.com/view/2008/11/12/EU_levies_hefty_fine_on_car_glass_makers_f/

I could go on...

 

siemens it pretty much dead, it survives being sold in pieces to different companies, benq bought the mobile phone part not use it anymore.

nokia part of the network part (but also struggling to keep it alive).

 i think they still make notebooks with fujitsu.



Darc Requiem on 14 May 2009
heruamon said:
NJ5 said:
@heruamon: Maybe you missed this post with the specifics of the deals Intel made:

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/post.php?id=2151200

Yeah, I missed that posting, and it's pretty damning, but should this then go thru a court case, and get it deliberated, since to be quite fair...this is as reported by the same EU regulators that are applying this unprecedented fine...so they are a bit bias, I would say.

Edit: After scourge the news for more info, I definitely think the EU had a basis to slam Intel with a fine, but because the fine so outstrips the violation, imho, you are kinda fixated on the amount, and not the charges.  There are two parties involved in these cases...Intel and the said parties, and amazingly, you see nothing against those companies.  Sure, Intel offered it to them ,but they took it...whereas other companies didn't, otherwise AMD would have never gotten ANY market share.  Subsequent to that time, AMD has put out a clearly inferior product, and they funny thing is Intel's Market share is increasing without these extensive rebates, not decreasing, based on sound engineering, not gimmicks.

I DO standby my forecastthat Apple is next...

Heruamon, Intel effectively limited the market share of AMD when they were putting out a superior product to Intel's chip line. This reduced the amount revenue and profit AMD should have been pulling in at the time. Which would effect the amount of money AMD had to invest in future chip lines.



NJ5 on 14 May 2009
Darc Requiem said:
heruamon said:
NJ5 said:
@heruamon: Maybe you missed this post with the specifics of the deals Intel made:

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/post.php?id=2151200

Yeah, I missed that posting, and it's pretty damning, but should this then go thru a court case, and get it deliberated, since to be quite fair...this is as reported by the same EU regulators that are applying this unprecedented fine...so they are a bit bias, I would say.

Edit: After scourge the news for more info, I definitely think the EU had a basis to slam Intel with a fine, but because the fine so outstrips the violation, imho, you are kinda fixated on the amount, and not the charges.  There are two parties involved in these cases...Intel and the said parties, and amazingly, you see nothing against those companies.  Sure, Intel offered it to them ,but they took it...whereas other companies didn't, otherwise AMD would have never gotten ANY market share.  Subsequent to that time, AMD has put out a clearly inferior product, and they funny thing is Intel's Market share is increasing without these extensive rebates, not decreasing, based on sound engineering, not gimmicks.

I DO standby my forecastthat Apple is next...

Heruamon, Intel effectively limited the market share of AMD when they were putting out a superior product to Intel's chip line. This reduced the amount revenue and profit AMD should have been pulling in at the time. Which would effect the amount of money AMD had to invest in future chip lines.

 

Yeah, I think many people forget that AMD actually had superior processors at one point. Intel started having better performance again just a few years ago. Surely these anti-competitive tricks helped Intel get back on top.

 



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Words Of Wisdom on 14 May 2009
NJ5 said:

Yeah, I think many people forget that AMD actually had superior processors at one point. Intel started having better performance again just a few years ago. Surely these anti-competitive tricks helped Intel get back on top.

In terms of marketshare, Intel never left the top.



Darc Requiem on 14 May 2009
Words Of Wisdom said:
NJ5 said:

Yeah, I think many people forget that AMD actually had superior processors at one point. Intel started having better performance again just a few years ago. Surely these anti-competitive tricks helped Intel get back on top.

In terms of marketshare, Intel never left the top.

 

I don't think anyone is disputing that. However their illegal tactics stunted their marketshare loss to AMD.



heruamon on 14 May 2009
Darc Requiem said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
NJ5 said:

Yeah, I think many people forget that AMD actually had superior processors at one point. Intel started having better performance again just a few years ago. Surely these anti-competitive tricks helped Intel get back on top.

In terms of marketshare, Intel never left the top.

 

I don't think anyone is disputing that. However their illegal tactics stunted their marketshare loss to AMD.


So is the EU going to punish the other side of the equation as well...probably not...

"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

MrBubbles on 15 May 2009

EU has to pay for their welfare states somehow. cant really expect the other countries to do it...



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crumas2 on 15 May 2009
NJ5 said:
@crumas2: Maybe I shouldn't have put it that way, but I was dismayed to see someone say the EU has nothing to do with this because it's between two American companies. When clearly these things were happening under EU's jurisdiction, making it trivial to say it's EU law to be applied.

I'm not sure why they're not going after the retailers. It depends on what the law is, perhaps this is not considered a real bribe so Intel only got nailed for it because they're already a monopoly, so the rules are more strict on them. But I'm just guessing here.

Understood.  And I wasn't being very clear by saying it's none of the EU's business.  I guess I should have said that the massive fine approach to foreign companies that violate EU trade laws is more of a tax than an appropriate response.  Had an EU company and/or EU consumers being significantly damaged by the behavior (which I will argue they were not), then I could understand a significant fine, but not $1b.