KBG29 said: Uhhhhhh people. Graphics, and power don't sell consoles. Usability, software, and convienence sell consoles. PS3 is going to last, and it is going to last a long time. PS3 will easly still be around by 2020. Sony will not have a new console until at the earliest 2014. They have absolutly no reason to release a PS4 before then. Right now PS3 graphics are so good that your average consumer can not tell the differance between them and Crysis. I doubt that people will be able to see a differance between the next big PC IP, and the newest PS3 games at the time. It is the same thing pixar has been saying for years. Besides the die hards, most people don't see a graphical differance between Toy Story and WALL-E. Further, PS3 has so much potential that there is nearly nothing that Microsoft, or Nintendo can through out that Sony can't just tack onto the PS3. Even with a 50M use base, if MS and Nintedno try something new in say 2011, all Sony has to do is drop in, and say "our console is $100 less than the compotention, and if you currently own a PS3, here is the same experiance for 1/4 of the price". Just look at it as Nintendo dropping the Wii in 05 at E3 with motion, and it taking off as it did. Sony could have paused development on PS3, through on motion to PS2, and slammed the door on Nintendos face. Then a couple of years later they could have launched PS3 which crushed Wii in every aspect, and they would of carried over all their old base. So, at the moment I see Sony in the drivers seat. They have Blu-ray, they have the video store, they have games, tons of head room from a tech stand point, and those things give them the power to match the compotition on every aspect. PS3 is still out of the mass market price point, and it is still selling better than any previous gen console not called Playstation. Sony is waiting until they can be profitable at $299, and then they will swoop in, and we will see what happens from there. I am sure it will happen this year, because the CPU/GPU to 45nm in PS3 will cut cost, plus the new PSP modle should be a much higher profit device, and they will have more software sales thanks to the inability to pirate.

Statements in red are contradictory...

i don't know what that means...did you mean "can do through out"

MS offers pretty much the same as Sony does in terms of buying "videos" and netflix compatability on top of that...

That was a bit Fanboyish

 

rckrz6 said: We are already due for a new console, these consoles are sersiouly gimped with ram. they should come with bigger HDD and every game should have an install.  We don;t see enough 1080p games which is ashame

I completly understand that PS3 is not the most powerful thing on the planet, and I know it is already possible to build something with much more power. But, as I said, the amount of people that can tell the differance between a PS3, and a console with even 2GB of RAM, a 16 core processor, and a GPU from next year is going to be very slim. I mean we would be talking about a differance less than the differance between 720p, and 1080p. Also, we have to learn the lesson that this gen, and those before has taught us. Power does not always mean victory.

Going slightly of topic, I want to once again say, that I think the video game market needs to go to an open buisness model like the music, and movie markets. That way all software is exclusive to every platrform, because they are all the same. This we waste less dev time, moeny, and resources fighting a rediculous war. But, just for fun lets say there is another round of consoles, here is what I think is needed to give the general public something that will be no doubt better.

Processor - 40 core 360 like processor, or a 12 core 64 SPE cell like chip both at 4.5GHz
GPU - 2,000 core current style GPU, with on chip programming, and at 2GHz
RAM - Either a pool of 10GB, or to Pools of 5GB
anther GPU take; this could be 8, and 2 sets of 4 if the GPU had 512mb buffer
Bandwidths - GPU to RAM 1TB, CPU to RAM 1TB, CPU to GPU 2TB
optional frame buffer: 4TB
Storage - Only some form of SSD could possibly put out the amount of data needed to feed this beast, or mabye Holodiscs. I would figure at least 250MB/s transffer speeds are needed to keep loads around 40 seconds.

Those may sound crazy, but then again in 1999 so did 512MB of RAM, 9 core CPUs, and GPUs that, well GPUs were pretty much brand new. This system would have to be ready to multitask any operation a user wanted to perform without having to stop any other feature. It would have to be able to perform 3D, motion controls would be a must. Not just any motion either. I am talking full body motion. Plus this system will need a device that gives you feedback to truly feel the game. FPS's give a sensation to which point you are getting shot at, contact with a baseball is felt through the controller. The system would also need to be able to give you the smell, and atmosphere. Changing the tempeerature, humidity, and densety of the air.

That is what I expect from the next system after PS3. I am tierd of just better graphics, and cheap new controll methods. I expect to have a new experiances with my next console, and, no wait. I will have a new experiance with my next game console, no matter when the time comes. I have PS3, 360, and Wii right now and they will get played until something better comes out, and the above is something better. Either that system from SNM, or a lesser system from a new video game market thats fans are not about war, and putting down the competition.

KBG29 said: rckrz6 said: We are already due for a new console, these consoles are sersiouly gimped with ram. they should come with bigger HDD and every game should have an install.  We don;t see enough 1080p games which is ashame   I completly understand that PS3 is not the most powerful thing on the planet, and I know it is already possible to build something with much more power. But, as I said, the amount of people that can tell the differance between a PS3, and a console with even 2GB of RAM, a 16 core processor, and a GPU from next year is going to be very slim. I mean we would be talking about a differance less than the differance between 720p, and 1080p. Also, we have to learn the lesson that this gen, and those before has taught us. Power does not always mean victory. Going slightly of topic, I want to once again say, that I think the video game market needs to go to an open buisness model like the music, and movie markets. That way all software is exclusive to every platrform, because they are all the same. This we waste less dev time, moeny, and resources fighting a rediculous war. But, just for fun lets say there is another round of consoles, here is what I think is needed to give the general public something that will be no doubt better. Processor - 40 core 360 like processor, or a 12 core 64 SPE cell like chip both at 4.5GHz GPU - 2,000 core current style GPU, with on chip programming, and at 2GHz RAM - Either a pool of 10GB, or to Pools of 5GB anther GPU take; this could be 8, and 2 sets of 4 if the GPU had 512mb buffer Bandwidths - GPU to RAM 1TB, CPU to RAM 1TB, CPU to GPU 2TB optional frame buffer: 4TB Storage - Only some form of SSD could possibly put out the amount of data needed to feed this beast, or mabye Holodiscs. I would figure at least 250MB/s transffer speeds are needed to keep loads around 40 seconds. Those may sound crazy, but then again in 1999 so did 512MB of RAM, 9 core CPUs, and GPUs that, well GPUs were pretty much brand new. This system would have to be ready to multitask any operation a user wanted to perform without having to stop any other feature. It would have to be able to perform 3D, motion controls would be a must. Not just any motion either. I am talking full body motion. Plus this system will need a device that gives you feedback to truly feel the game. FPS's give a sensation to which point you are getting shot at, contact with a baseball is felt through the controller. The system would also need to be able to give you the smell, and atmosphere. Changing the tempeerature, humidity, and densety of the air. That is what I expect from the next system after PS3. I am tierd of just better graphics, and cheap new controll methods. I expect to have a new experiances with my next console, and, no wait. I will have a new experiance with my next game console, no matter when the time comes. I have PS3, 360, and Wii right now and they will get played until something better comes out, and the above is something better. Either that system from SNM, or a lesser system from a new video game market thats fans are not about war, and putting down the competition.

 

There many not be much inital need for it now, but in a few years the PC and console gap will be huge.  I believe the consoles were somewhat gimped from the beginning.  Im acually impressed though for what they can do with the current specs

^ 4.5Ghz CPU? 2Ghz GPU? Wow, thats so far out there I don't know what to say.

The fastest clocking commerically available processor tops out at something like 3.6Ghz for a reason. The fastest clocking GPU available is 1GHZ for a very good reason and this mark has only been attained by overclocked GPUs.

I just glanced at your story and saw that the ps2 had a release price of 300$???
i thought it began much higher

other than that, ps3 will still last, dont worry sony needs to make profit first (jk)

Noobie said: Intro Reason 1: Its The technology The longest running home consoles have been NES (weaker than Master System) SNES (weaker than Mega drive) PS1 (weaker than N64) PS2 Weaker than GC/xbox Technology does not make a console last a long time   Reason 2. Games Now you're talking. Games are what make a console last When PS2 launched all the its major IPs franchises like GTA, GT, FFXIII launched within 2 yrs. or around 2 yrs. But many of these major franchises for PS3 has yet to be released. GT and FFXIII and God OF War III. In my view only 1 major IP has been released on PS3 yet which is MGS4. Secondly All these games franchises had atleast 2 major releases on PS2. and if we expect two major releases for PS3 for all these franchises than i think PS3 is going to stay for another 4 to 5 yrs easily. So GTA counts as a major IP last gen but not this gen? GT will be big GoW is a fairly small series, sorry FFXIII is multiplat, and thus won't help (except in Japan, but that's a country where non handheld gaming is dropping off in popularity, and it's not going to be as big as DQIX or DQX in japan)   Reason 3. Price Once again, way off track. Did late price cuts help the Gamecube to have a long life? Make a gaph of all the well known consoles, with starting price against lifespan. If anything, there will be a trend that the cheapest console at launch lasts the longest because it gets the most sales and thus the most games Reason 4. Developers & Publishers need to stay happy Agreed, devs will make games for the console with the highest software sales and lowest dev costs. This will never be the PS3   Reason 5. PS3 echoSystem is big. Any evidence that these features will lead to a longer life. Also, the 360 has those features too, and the Wii is getting free video on demand with exclusive content   Reason 6. Management A company never abandons a console willingly, they are forced to abandon it due to poor sales, or Intel being a dick (ie the Xbox)

 

 

@Zizzla_Rachet

The Red

I don't see a contradiction. I was saying that graphics and power don't sell systems, and that at any rate PS3 graphics are at a point were most people can't tell the differance between them, and the best out anyway. Then I futher explained that a well known graphics company has stated several times that after a sertant point (which I am saying PS3 has reach), the differance in graphics is only noticed by a minor few.

The Black

Sorry, ment throw out.

The Blue

I was just stating that the PS3 already has those capablities. I know 360 has a better streaming service ATM, and PS3 has Blu-ray so its a trade off. I also expect both PS3, and 360 to have a music store, and a full reatil games download store by the end of the year. So with each addition of things to this gen, it just takes away from the new factor for a next gen shock and awe addition.

The Green

I still strongly believe that Sony can change the playing feild dramaticly depending on this E3. They have the brand name which is thye only reason I see them having an adavantage over MS if they announce the same features. If Sony brings;

-3d games
-Motion Contol, and pulls away Wii exclusive minigames.
-adds music, and full game downlaods
-shows a much improved GT5 w/ crash damage, weather, day to night, and great online
-gets KH3
-Team Icos new games live up to the hype
-drops the price to $299 buy september

All of which I think is the base of what they should have, then things "could" get very interesting. Take away 3D, motion, and KH3, and I think it will only slightly effect the market, but enough to play some major catchup. But, that only applies if MS avoids motion to. If MS brings motion then its will be lights out for Sony, and I expect Nintendo to see a bit of drop off to. I only see Nintedno as having no chance to go anywhere, but I could be shocked.

Soriku said: Sephiroth357 said: Zizzla_Rachet said: Soriku said: Xxain said: Stefan.De.Machtige said: Once the new generation lanches the third party dev. aren't going to invest some 30 million on a thrid place console with the smallest userbase. The wii will be like the PS2. All the others will get next to nothing. Why would any third party dev. spend that kind of money when the wii is at least 50% cheaper and has the largest installbase which dwarfs the two others. People, think. That makes no sense. The PS3 is a fine console and a very good bargain for what it delivers. But it is the GC of this generation. Nintendo dropped it like a brick, so will Sony. It sucks but what are you going to do about it.   Why would any third party dev. spend that kind of money when the wii is at least 50% cheaper and has the largest installbase which dwarfs the two others. People, think. That makes no sense. uhhh...there doing it now...where have you been   This gen the PS3/360 actually had an advantage though...since devs didn't expect the Wii to be #1 they made all their engines and stuff and worked on the HD consoles. Turned out the PS3 couldn't maintain most games alone so they brought them to the 360 as well. Also some devs are still stuck in the "Wii can't sell core games" mentality (mainly Western devs though). Though it's not like quality games aren't on/coming to Wii either... Next gen I'd expect them to be more cautious. Waiting to see if the Wii 2 (which will be HD thus making those graphic heavy devs happy enough) to dominate (which, if Nintendo plays their cards right again which they should, it probably will). Some casuals *may* want to stick with the Wii leaving a userbase open with core gamers on it, but Nintendo will, of course, do all in their power to get those casuals to migrate (those casuals may even develop into gamers like us by then which Nintendo definitely aimed to do).   PS2 gave game devs alot of graphic power to use and Xbox even more so...the reason why the Xbox 360 got the support it got was due to game devs liking what MS was doing with their system...While the Xbox did not last as long as the Ps2 it was substantilly more powerful and the ps2 respectively was no slouch....it was only natural for the next gen console to upgrade from there...Nintendo sought to take gaming in a different direction and used what they deemed necessary....the fact of their sucess is just good for nintendo and those who like it's premise... HD TVs are behind upgrades not the consoles themselves which are optimized to support HD tv's...   Now, now, really?

Ah gee, you ruined it!

 

 

@Squilliam

When PS2 came out a 1Ghz CPU was fast a mind blowing acomplishment.
When the PS3 came out a 500MHz GPU was hot shit.
Processors will easly hit 4, 5, and 6GHz in time with die shrinks, and increases in cooling tech, along with better pipe design, and more.

I am talking about a console to arrive in about 2015. The numbers I stated may look like a joke to the PC crowd by then.

KBG29 said: @Squilliam When PS2 came out a 1Ghz CPU was fast a mind blowing acomplishment. When the PS3 came out a 500MHz GPU was hot shit. Processors will easly hit 4, 5, and 6GHz in time with die shrinks, and increases in cooling tech, along with better pipe design, and more. I am talking about a console to arrive in about 2015. The numbers I stated may look like a joke to the PC crowd by then.

CPUs and GPUs don't just increase in clock speed because they can, they increase their clockspeed if they are designed to operate at said speeds. Both GPUs and CPUs have been trending towards longer pipelines which means that as a whole their clock speeds will not increase. You need short pipelines to increase clock speed quickly.