I agree with everything ben says. People were so quick to criticise when at the end of the day, the 360 wouldnt be outselling the ps3 if it wasnt cheaper

"No, it isn't.  Quality is a "degree of excelence" or "social standing," both of which Siren would fall to a lesser tier than GTAIV.  However, Siren has certain qualities you enjoy more.  Quality can be a subjective term, but it is defined by a mass audience.  What qualities you like or dislike are a very personally subjective thing.  The measured quality of Siren, from reviews, was somewhat average, with complaints of stiff controls, slow start, and repetitive environments (all negative qualities, taking away from its overall quality).  GTAIV was almost universally praised as near perfect quality.  Despite this, both you and I have games that we enjoy much more.  So, our enjoyment isn't chained to the actual quality of the game, because enjoyment is entirely subjective and has nothing to do with quality or sales."

When you played a game and enjoyed that game, there was at least one factor of that game that the developers did right enough to earn your time, attention, resources, and energy.  That's where that quality of that factor or factors comes in to draw you in for the enjoyment of that game.  Quality is NEVER defined by the masses beacuse the masses isn't always right, and the masses isn't always wrong.  CGI-Quality is correct that gaming isn't based on sales, and I cannot see where you will have a problem with it.  And look at his name, "CGI-Quality."  There is CGI quality, there is cel-shaded quality, there is anime style quality, etc.  One quality isn't necessarily better than the other.  It depends what has been done well enough to appeal to a certain audience or person.  As a survival/horror fan, I've come across several titles of such poor quality that there was nothing enough of good quality to make it recommendable.  So when CGI-Quality said "quality," he was correct in its proper and applicable content in which gamers play quality games that they enjoy which appeals to them, not because of sales.  If you honestly think that quality is determined by the mass, you my friend are nothing but sheep to allow the masses to sway you in whatever direction it calls for.  And for your info, the Wii is my preferable console of choice, not because of the mass hardware sales, not because of the mass software sales, not because it's the most popular.  It's because I'm a Miyamoto fan in which it doesn't matter how good or bad a Nintendo console sells as long as I have the games I want and enjoy to play of high quality.

This guy is obviously bias in favor of the ps3.We all know that it won´t catch the 360.

Stop posting stop posting stop posting.. your just talking semantics and not even on topic. STFU.

Why must giving a system a nod for having good titles, and reducing the number of negative comments, be turned into fanboy ammo that is now used to tell 360 owners, "Suck it down, you are going to be in last place, AGAIN! MUHAHAHAH! MORANS!"?

Can't people just be happy with their system doing well? Who knows what sales numbers will be? We need to have the PS3 drop in price before we even begin to discuss this seriously. And what does last place matter?

No it's not... I liked SIREN more!! I just know it wasn't of the same quality. The DEFINITION of "quality" is "social standing or rank".  By definition, GTAIV is a higher quality game.  I just don't like it, and neither does other guy.  Our enjoyment was not a function of the quality or sales data.

It's semantics, really, but I was just making a point that I thought was less arguable than "it's not sales, it's quality".  We measure sales in numbers (totals or cash), we measure quality in numbers (rank or score)...  You can't measure "enjoyment".

I was expecting to see that the original message would be about the quality of what is for the PS3, and speak about how it is great the PS3 is getting respect.  But then, the writer decides to lob shells down at the 360 folks, with stuff like, "We are gonna get ya".  It is like your system is entitled to sell a certain amount, more than your opponent, just because you think it is part of the natural order of the universe?  The PS2 won last generation, and it had the worst specs of the 3 systems (well, outside of bigger storage than Gamecube game disks).  The Wii is winning now, and likely to win this generation, and it isn't even in the same league. 

Anyhow, who cares about haters.  I am not sure people taunt others over what brand washing machine or refridgerator they own.

Ahhh... SO, if I say "yogurt" means "stuff I like" (to me), then I can say "Yogurt is what gaming is all about."

NOW we're all on the same page.

ps- 3 out of 3 weren't so hot on GTAIV....  hmmm....

I think we have been all along, with tits beside the point entirely.

My only point in this fun distraction was that it was wrong to try and tell someone that they were wrong for saying something is better because of the sales, because they're better due to quality.  You're arguing semantics there, since obviously the masses are spending their money on what they feel is the highest "quality" or bang for their buck.  I threw in the "what about enjoyment?", since I was pretty sure that's what was actually meant (I was being a smart ass), since quality DOES NOT MEAN ENJOYMENT, and we all got into a big debate that reached a bit of a climax when you said "I know what the definition of quality is, but the dictionary definition is not the real definition if the person using it doesn't mean that."  Thus, yogurt.

We collectively straw-manned the hell out of what was already a pointless argument about sales numbers.  The fact is, everything we're talking about can be twisted into a subjective context, even sales.  If you take the massive lead of the 360 and say "just wait for the P$3 price cut", then you are saying that the consumers perceive 360 as a higher quality for their dollar, and that the P$3 is overpriced of its percieved value (or quality).

When we ran the debate from comparing terms to outright declaring a word to have a protean definition for the purposes of not admitting that quality was no better a measure than sales, then there was no point even trying to make sense anymore.

Yogurt is the answer, because I said it is.  You can't argue with that, because you already said I could do this.  The only reasonable response from here is to start arguing about just how much yogurt each console can hold, and then feeding the same ammount to Ben Dutka.

This argument started off topic.  In fact, I'm the only one that tied it back in with the "stuffing Ben Dutka full of yogurt" comment, which has as much merit as anything the guy actually said in his ridiculously biased rant against bias.

Also, the wall of text is so pretty......