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Forums - Gaming - The Greatest Enemy of the RPG Genre

Xxain said:
both of those definitions a bad:

Griffin what if he becomes hardcore and rearranges his life...for 1 game?? then goes back to normal??

Zizzia - what if i own all consoles, but use my PS3 for BR, Wii for family and friends, anc 360 for Halo?

 

 As soon as he stopped playing video games he would stop being a hardcore gamer or in fact a gamer at all. He was a hardcore gamer.



"Pier was a chef, a gifted and respected chef who made millions selling his dishes to the residents of New York City and Boston, he even had a famous jingle playing in those cities that everyone knew by heart. He also had a restaurant in Los Angeles, but not expecting LA to have such a massive population he only used his name on that restaurant and left it to his least capable and cheapest chefs. While his New York restaurant sold kobe beef for $100 and his Boston restaurant sold lobster for $50, his LA restaurant sold cheap hotdogs for $30. Initially these hot dogs sold fairly well because residents of los angeles were starving for good food and hoped that the famous name would denote a high quality, but most were disappointed with what they ate. Seeing the success of his cheap hot dogs in LA, Pier thought "why bother giving Los Angeles quality meats when I can oversell them on cheap hotdogs forever, and since I don't care about the product anyways, why bother advertising them? So Pier continued to only sell cheap hotdogs in LA and was surprised to see that they no longer sold. Pier's conclusion? Residents of Los Angeles don't like food."

"The so-called "hardcore" gamer is a marketing brainwashed, innovation shunting, self-righteous idiot who pays videogame makers far too much money than what is delivered."

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griffinA said:
Xxain said:
both of those definitions a bad:

Griffin what if he becomes hardcore and rearranges his life...for 1 game?? then goes back to normal??

Zizzia - what if i own all consoles, but use my PS3 for BR, Wii for family and friends, anc 360 for Halo?

 

 As soon as he stopped playing video games he would stop being a hardcore gamer or in fact a gamer at all. He was a hardcore gamer.


But he met your requirements though

Xxain said:
griffinA said:
Xxain said:
both of those definitions a bad:

Griffin what if he becomes hardcore and rearranges his life...for 1 game?? then goes back to normal??

Zizzia - what if i own all consoles, but use my PS3 for BR, Wii for family and friends, anc 360 for Halo?

 

 As soon as he stopped playing video games he would stop being a hardcore gamer or in fact a gamer at all. He was a hardcore gamer.


 

But he met your requirements though

 

 Yes, he did in the past. But he no longer does.



"Pier was a chef, a gifted and respected chef who made millions selling his dishes to the residents of New York City and Boston, he even had a famous jingle playing in those cities that everyone knew by heart. He also had a restaurant in Los Angeles, but not expecting LA to have such a massive population he only used his name on that restaurant and left it to his least capable and cheapest chefs. While his New York restaurant sold kobe beef for $100 and his Boston restaurant sold lobster for $50, his LA restaurant sold cheap hotdogs for $30. Initially these hot dogs sold fairly well because residents of los angeles were starving for good food and hoped that the famous name would denote a high quality, but most were disappointed with what they ate. Seeing the success of his cheap hot dogs in LA, Pier thought "why bother giving Los Angeles quality meats when I can oversell them on cheap hotdogs forever, and since I don't care about the product anyways, why bother advertising them? So Pier continued to only sell cheap hotdogs in LA and was surprised to see that they no longer sold. Pier's conclusion? Residents of Los Angeles don't like food."

"The so-called "hardcore" gamer is a marketing brainwashed, innovation shunting, self-righteous idiot who pays videogame makers far too much money than what is delivered."

Xxain said:
both of those definitions a bad:

Griffin what if he becomes hardcore and rearranges his life...for 1 game?? then goes back to normal??

Zizzia - what if i own all consoles, but use my PS3 for BR, Wii for family and friends, anc 360 for Halo?

 

Then...You Have a smart grip on things...All new Movies are coming out on Blue Ray and Even some old school ones are returning on BR....Older people would enjoy the Wii more since they don't care what the Polygon count is or proly know what a polygon is...and the Wii has great Party games.....And As for using your 360 for Halo...well..Don't we all...



 



Giant Rats



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Well, I think that this article hits on some things that are true, but many times for the wrong reasons. I'll state firstly and admit, that yes, I am one of the people who sees FF7 as the major downfall of RPGs. But it's not because it brought more people into the RPG fray. I still think that's a good thing- on the surface. The game was far too easy compared to the prior titles, was way too linear, and even the story felt like it was lacking. It used the easiest thing to get more people to look at it: graphics. Eh, so I write off 1 game; if it means twice the people are buying RPGs, good. It can mean that I get more of the games I love.

However, that wasn't the case. A large majority of the new games that would follow were thrown to the new fanbase, ignoring us of the old. The few bones that were thrown back to us were always blasted in reviews for either not looking pretty, being too hard, or yes, in some cases, not being 'Final Fantasy'. This is where my jade, as well as some others', comes from. It did not become an 'expansion', it became a 'replacement' for the RPG category. Sure, they're still technically RPGs, but the old fanbase was basically paved over with the new. For some of us, Final Fantasy was gone forever. The only thing we've seen since 6 were the scattered references made in 9.

Do I look down on these new fans? Not for this alone. I realize that people have different entry points; my having Dragon Warrior (Quest) 1 as an entry point does not give me the right to look down on someone who may've entered at FF3US, or even FF7. When I will have a problem is when the newer gamer will blast the old games, frequently without having actually played them for more than 15 minutes, as being "ugly" or being "too hard". Sorry, but it was that challenge that many of us old RPG fans look for. Yes, we're a dying breed, but I'm going to cling to those few games we have left, like Persona 4 and Dark Spire, and treasure them. Because I don't know how much longer we'll have the chance to see games even like this anymore, given the lower sales...

On the other front that seems to have developed, the casual vs hardcore distinction, I'll give what I think on that:

Casual players typically like to be able to play for short periods of time. This is why they tend to like mini-game compilations- it lets them feel as though they actually acomplished something in a short amount of time. Thus, they will also tend to gravitate toward the games that don't require hours and hours of practice. When they choose to expand out, they will choose to scratch a surface. This scratch will be at whatever the "big game" in the genre is, such as Halo for FPS games. But this does not make Halo a casual game; rather, they'll try to sit down with it for 10 minutes or so, and really get nothing done. Perish the thought they go into multiplayer, I don't even think they'd stick around that long. They're not going to keep playing Halo for the hours required, nor are they likely to look for another FPS. They'll go back to what they're comfortable with.

Hardcore gamers, however, routinely play games for an extended period of time. They have no problem putting the time in to become good at Halo, partially because of also having existing skills that allow them to pick it up faster. These gamers have also successfully scratched many genre surfaces, finding at least 1 game in many areas that they like, though there will be at least 1 genre where they've taken the shovel, pickax, and many other excavation tools to find the gems of that genre that few know about. The hardcore will look for more than just a good time, they'll have that one other thing they want to get, whether it's 100% completion in an RPG bestiary, that coveted platinum trophy in Halo 3, or creating that LBP level that everyone seems to love. Casuals couldn't care less about these; they're here to keep the hardcore playing more. And play, they will.

So what about those who do play something simple for hours on end for a goal, like finishing a game of no-redraw solitaire? They may be a hardcore solitaire player, but that doesn't make them a hardcore gamer. If they've not scratched many other genre surfaces, they've a long way to go. Conversely, what about the hardcore fan who only has time to play for 15 minutes at a time? They still can be hardcore, as they're capable of seeing the larger picture. They know that it may not seem as though they got much done today, but they know that they are just that much closer to the end. They can revel in that fact, something that a casual player can not do, as they've seen no immeadiate satisfaction.



-dunno001

-On a quest for the truly perfect game; I don't think it exists...

Casual: People who play games just for fun, to pass time, for social reasons, because they're fans of one or two particular games (i.e. Madden, Halo, etc), and so on.

Hardcore: They follow gaming news. Are aware of the "gaming world". They are not fanboys. Hardcore gamers are similar to the hardcore moviegoer who watches thousands of movies across genre simply to expand their understanding of and familiarity with cinema.

I don't think that you have to be one or the other. You could just be a gamer. But true hardcore gamers do not limit themselves to systems or genres or series. They game because a deeprooted love for gaming



Crusty VGchartz old timer who sporadically returns & posts. Let's debate nebulous shit and expand our perpectives. Or whatever.

griffinA said:
Zizzla_Rachet said:
griffinA said:
I actually like this article a lot. This is a trend that happens all the time in all types of entertainment.

For example, when rap became popular with people like Biggie and Puff Daddy there was a huge schism in the rap community over this new found recognition. Today it takes the form of "casual" listeners of rap and "hardcore" rap fans.

This same schism is happening today between "casual" gamers and "hardcore " gamers. "The casualz like games like Wii Sports, Halo, and Nintendogs when they're are MUCH better games to choose from!" The hardcore gamers cry. That's just how entertainment is.

 

FAIL!!!! Halo Is so Hardcore

Not really according to this thread: http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=71027

All of the so-called FPS hardcore fans say that Halo is an average FPS that doesn't deserve great sales.

 

Those are the same kind of morons who said that Half Life 2 was garbage to so it's kind of retarded.  There are people who actually think Halo 1 is a better game than Halo 2... Halo 1 a game that was rushed out so fast that they had to reuse levels to lengthen the game.

 



In Japan, RPGs are going strong.

In America and for some people in Europe, all RPGs have to be compared to Final Fantasy. As if it created console based RPGs. This is the real problem with RPGs. The fact that everything has to be 'how good is it after Final Fantasy which is the best'.

Its the same as any other genre. Everyone is looking for the 'Halo Killer'. Yet reviewers and a large amount of fans just default back to it as being 'the best' without actually weighting the pros and cons of other series.

So the problem is really 2 fold. 'Western gamers' focus too much on trying to compare everything. And when they do, they have to say something is bad for something else to be good.



Six upcoming games you should look into:

 

  

This thread is a prime example of why "hardcore" doesn't actually exist. The definition changes all the time. Last generation, if you only played Madden or Halo, you were a "casual" gamer. This generation, people have twisted the meaning of "hardcore" to be mature rated games.

As for the article, I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion, but it certainly describes the elitist mindset that is common in many things.



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