It is possible to argue that it is ineffective and morally wrong.
Argument #1: Whether it works or not, it is un-American and morally wrong.
Argument #2: Whether it's morally acceptable or not, it doesn't work.
Tyrannical said:
Instead of keeping related posts in one topic, you decide to create a new one claiming torture doesn't work. I disagree. Now you say it doesn't matter if it does work. Well, which is it? Any point discussing the morality of torture relies on wether it does or does not work. And, you are stealing my hard earned VG chartz money by needlessly making duplicate topics. |
Its called looking at two sides of a coin. 1) It is ineffective, 2) Even if it is effective, we still shouldn't do it because it is wrong. I guess making more than one argument at once is too much for your brain to handle.
And are you kidding me? Morality has nothing to do with whether something works or not. Nukes work pretty damn well. Swindling money out of people can work pretty well. Getting an abortion is a pretty damn good way to get rid of a baby. That doesn't mean that choosing to do those things is morally sound. Morality has nothing whatsoever to do with whether something works or not. What kind of warped morality do you practice?
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke
It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...." Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson
sometimes morality is irrelevant. when you work to save lives, you do whats effective.
"I like my steaks how i like my women. Bloody and all over my face"
"Its like sex, but with a winner!"
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| The Ghost of RubangB said: It is possible to argue that it is ineffective and morally wrong. Argument #1: Whether it works or not, it is un-American and morally wrong. Argument #2: Whether it's morally acceptable or not, it doesn't work. |
You can also argue that it is effective and morally right.
The needs of the many (the lives saved by averting a terrorist attack) out way the needs of the few (the terrorist being tortured). You could also further argue that sacrficing the rights of the unjust terrorists saves the lives of completely innocent people that were in no way involved with the torture.
Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
— Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire
| MrBubbles said: sometimes morality is irrelevant. when you work to save lives, you do whats effective. |
What do you feel about some people that were put in jail for life, only to be released when they are 80 years old and found to be innocent?
Laws are meant to be equal, not selectively bend just because of whatever your reason be.
| MrBubbles said: sometimes morality is irrelevant. when you work to save lives, you do whats effective. |
So why not just nuke the Middle East and get it over with? That would be the most effective.
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke
It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...." Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson
Tyrannical said:
You can also argue that it is effective and morally right. The needs of the many (the lives saved by averting a terrorist attack) out way the needs of the few (the terrorist being tortured). You could also further argue that sacrficing the rights of the unjust terrorists saves the lives of completely innocent people that were in no way involved with the torture. |
So doesn't that argument justify what the terrorists are doing too? They are looking out for their religion and there interests. They kill a few Americans and are able to justify it in the name of Islam as a whole.
I find it very ironic that supporters of the political party who claim to be the "Christian" party make these kinds of arguments.
Who would Jesus torture? Who would Jesus bomb? Who would Jesus invade?
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke
It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...." Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson
obviously the court wasnt being effective, was it?
"I like my steaks how i like my women. Bloody and all over my face"
"Its like sex, but with a winner!"
MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur
| MrBubbles said: obviously the court wasnt being effective, was it? |
Neither was the Constitution.
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke
It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...." Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson
akuma587 said:
So why not just nuke the Middle East and get it over with? That would be the most effective.
|
not really...could you imagine the price of gas if you did that?
"I like my steaks how i like my women. Bloody and all over my face"
"Its like sex, but with a winner!"
MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur
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