Once again a fault in your logic.  If Palestine gets all of the land back... won't these Israeli people remember their land?  Living there and there lives.  Israel had the land long before 1950.  Th country just wasn't named Israel yet.

The UK planned on making a Jewish homeland as early as 1917.

That is pretty much a defeatist point of view, don't you think? The people of Palestine seem to be the type who don't want to just roll over and just take it. Are they using the right venue to get their land back? That is up for debate and I don't think killing civilians is sending the right message...it is getting them attention like they planned, but not the right way. Sure, it maybe land to you, but for them it is home. And fighting for ones homes is a fight worth fighting for...so long as it is done properly.

I mentioned this earlier, but during World War I Britian promised the Palestinian their own country if they helped them fight against the Ottomans (which they did) and supported the creation of Israel to lessen German support from Jews.  It was entirely self-motivated and they kept Palestine for themselves afterwards.

Israel forcefully took their land, they are the wrong-doers in this example.  Lets say you own a car and I steal it.  If you see me later on in life driving your car, wouldnt you want the car back?  Doesnt the car still belong to you?  If I steal your car and keep it for 40 years, the car still belongs to you.  Now, lets say I stole your car and justice was never served so you never got it back.  Then, 1000 years in the future, the car is sitting is a museum of history and one of your ancestors claims the car, obviously the claim has little merit.

So what you're saying is...if the Soviet army took over the U.S. and I was being threatened by soldiers with automatic weapons, that it would be defeatist to think that there's nothing I could do? That is the point of occupying a country. Rebellions against occupiers often take such a long time for that very reason.

And it's a lot of people's "homes", and no one is really correct since the only thing that has decided who controlled what land during human history is who could control it.

Well, actually yes. In fact...that is the prime definition of acting as a defeatist. To think that you can't do anything at all to fix your situation is having a defeatist attitude.

Would you be able to do anything at that exact moment? Prolly not and thinking that you can't do anything there is prolly a smart reflex. But to just sit there for years, just telling yourself that its over and you can't do anything so I should just sit here and just obey whoever is in control is a defeatist attitude.

That is what the Palestinians, who are fighting for what they believe in, do not want to feel like doing. And neither do the Israelis. This is why this fight is never going to settle until the new generations finally understand that they are both people and looking for a place to live...even if it means together. And that won't happen until somebody admits they are wrong in excluding the other from the "piece of land."

1) If I saw you with my car I would report it to the authorties.  In the case of Palestine case the UN.  If I couldn't give it back I would move on.

In fact I can actually do you one better.

My great grandmother wasn't a rich woman.  But she owned a lot of land.  She had a lawyer right up a will.  Said lawyer convinced her that to save her kids, grand kids and great grand kids some trouble by making him executor of her will.  They were friends you see.  She babysat his kids so she trusted him.

She wrote of the will and gave him control.  When she died,  the lawyer refused to split up everything to the family as it was since "It wasn't perfectly even, therefore the land had to be kept until sold."  The lawfirm refused to sell it.  My family agreed to a number of things among themselves even agreeing to "sell" there shares to all one person in the family.

The lawyers still wouldn't budge.  And they slowley took fees from the estates value until the lawyer owned it.   They then turned that land around and sold it for millions because it was on valuable land.   My family had a chance of being rich, which would of been a big thing for my family since none of my relatives have been to college outside of myself... and possibly one aunt.

My family lives with it.  They go on and ignore that they were cheated out of their land and wealth.   They aren't going against the lawyers family on their own accord wirth weapons.

Furthermore if the higher authorties or the community at a whole... or whatever... said to my family "Look we can help you... but this is all we can get you back."  My family would accept whatever they could get back happily.

2)  Israel didn't take their land.  The UK, LoN and UN did.  All the Zionist movement did was lobby for Israel.  Because they perffered it to Kenya.  Or some other similar african country.  I forget which one they offered.

They were offered it... and they said "we'd perfer israel... since we believe it's our homeland."

And then... that was it.  The UK said "Ok!" and gave it to them... part of Palestine anyway.

Then the UN came in and said "OK the UK set up.  What we're going to do is set up these two countries.

The Palestinians said "Hell no." and started a war.  Which they lost.

Now they want to go back to the terms they agreed on before the war.

Which is pretty ridiculious.  I mean what kind of world would it be where you can opt out of contracts and deals... and them if things go bad and you couldn't get more... you can get back the deal with no problems, hard feeleings and concessions.

Palestine has had chances to get back nearly everything set up in that UN accord.  Yet they aren't happy with it.  Hell I don't even think they'd be happy with the full UN accord.  They would still be firing rockets at Israel.

1)  You were obviosly wronged.  But what if you had the chance for justice, say a lawyer or judge came to you and said they could get your land back in court.  Wouldnt you take it?  Of course.

2)  So your argument is that Israel should not have any blame since they had somebody else help them and do it for them.  So if I convince my girlfriend to kill my ex-girlfriend, I'm not responisble for anything?  I can just say, yeah I gave her a gun and drove her to her house, but I had somebody else do it so I'm of the hook?

1))  Wouldn't my great great grandkids take our land back in court as well?   Furthermore... that court woudl be the UN.  The correct path would of been to take back what they could of got back.  Like my family would of.  Then lobbied from there.

Not send my families children to the lawyers school to bully his kids until we get the land back and refuse to get back any part we legally unless we get it all back.

2)  Israel didn't convince them to "kill" anybody.  They were going to "kill" somebody anyway.  It being Palestine rather then Ethopia is immatieral.

 The Athenians present the Melians with a choice: the island may pay tribute to Athens and thus survive, or fight Athens and be destroyed. The Melians respond by arguing that their neutrality should be respected, and that international law guarantees their right to neutrality. The Melians also present several other counter-arguments, namely that showing mercy towards Melos will win the Athenians more friends; that the Spartans will come to Melos' aid; and finally that the gods will protect the island.

The Athenians, however, refuse to discuss either the justice of their demand or any substantive argument advanced by the Melians. Instead the Athenians offer a sharp, simple, and oft-quoted formula of hard realism: The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. The Athenians further suggest that the Spartans are no strangers to this principle, and thus that the Spartans will not assist the weak Melians if doing so is to Sparta's disadvantage.

I'll quickly disprove the notion that 'might makes right' which is what some of you are arguing.

Right is not dependent on might, but those with might do have the option to do what is right or what is wrong. If we are in an argument and I say that the Earth is flat, just because I'm stronger than you doesnt make the Earth flat.