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Forums - PC - A History of Microsoft's AntiCompetitive Behavior

alephnull on 23 April 2009
Squilliam said:
alephnull said:
Squilliam said:

I think that generally where a company has market power they will act against the best interests of the consumer and attempt to derive a much higher producer surplus than they could get otherwise.

Under orthodox models, monopolists will price above the point where MC=MR as you say. However, you have to be the first I've encountered to say this is in the interest of consumers. Usually the argument from classical liberals is that monopolies are impossible to maintain for a significant period without state interference.

Its not as simple as classical liberals like to think. Some markets by their very nature are more efficiently organised in a monopolistic kind of way. Consider situations like Cable companies, power line companies, Cell phone providers where each for a variety of reasons find a natural equilibrium in a monopolistic state. In these situations the market is better provided for by a monopoly as long as the excessive economic rents taken by these companies are held in check.

 

I agree completely. Sorry, I am slightly taken aback by someone thinking for themselves instead of parroting someone else's ideas on a non-econ blog.

To make this argument (and I'm not saying it can't be made) you first need show why multiple producers would be less efficient. This is obvious with cable companies (you don't want 12 different companies constantly digging up your back yard laying cable) but less so with OS's. I will grant you that an OS is a natural monopoly, but in the particular case of this market there are obvious alternatives such as agreed upon, well documented standards (such as POSIX) which imho negate the usefulness of a monopoly OS.

If you think those alternatives sub-optimal, then you need to present the case for not heavily regulating/establishing a national trust for windows much like is the case for utility companies.

 



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ymeaga1n on 23 April 2009
alephnull said:
disolitude said:
Name me 1 company that doesn't have questionable practices?

Remember the HP internal spying incident where the CEO spied on its board of directors with phone tabs?

MS is overly competitive for sure...but they employ many people...provide charity donations the size of small countries GDP and believe it or not...in most cases push the industry they are involved with forward.

 

There is something you should know about charities. I was raised in the West Palm Beach area and there is something called the charity circuit. Basically, a different charity holds a party/gala each night which allows people to throw lavish parties in a tax deductible way. Most of the time these charities barely break even on these parties^M^M^M^M^M^M^Mfundraisers. I think industry standard is 15% of the money taken in by charities on average actually makes it to it's cause.

There are some good charities like Oxfam, and I'm sure the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation does occasionally do good work. But if you think about it, handing his MS shares over to a non-profit trust under his control was the best way for him to avoid taxes and diversify his holdings. He is the richest man in the world, so he cannot pull the usual shenanigans as the politics are delicate.

Wow, are you that anti-ms that you can't even acknowledge the amazing work bill gates has done with the bill and medlina gates foundation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_and_Melinda_Gates_Foundation

Go do your research, your comment is pathetic. 




vlad321 on 23 April 2009

Alright. Do you realize what Microsoft has actually done though? Bill Gates has single-handedly brought a cimputer into everyone's home. Unlike Apple he let anyone who could build a PC use windows, drastically lowering the price of computers.

We owe the state of the world quite literally to Microsoft and Microsoft alone. They brought acomputer nto every house.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Jo21 on 23 April 2009
vlad321 said:

Alright. Do you realize what Microsoft has actually done though? Bill Gates has single-handedly brought a cimputer into everyone's home. Unlike Apple he let anyone who could build a PC use windows, drastically lowering the price of computers.

We owe the state of the world quite literally to Microsoft and Microsoft alone. They brought acomputer nto every house.

 

then again he have barred any other third party.

 there is no support for linux even its now a nicer OS.



alephnull on 23 April 2009
NeoRatt said:
These comments are all 10+ years old...

Talk about drudging up the past...

You can hate Microsoft all you want, but they are one of the most sucessful businesses in history. There have been tons of companies that their sole goal was to kill Microsoft. Each time Microsoft has come out on top... Simply put, they are smarter and more agile then any other large company on the planet.

 

Those were the quotes I chose, but there were more recent ones in TFA.

NeoRatt said:
You can hate Microsoft all you want, but they are one of the most sucessful businesses in history.

Ah yes, a variation of Worthington's law. If someone has more money than you, they are better than you and therefore beyond criticism.

NeoRatt said:

Simply put, they are smarter and more agile then any other large company on the planet.

They dominate many markets. That they therefore must have been smarter and more agile than all competators is quite the logical leap. I remain unconvinced. Someone had to come out on top and smart and agile is rarely a successful genetic strategy.



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alephnull on 23 April 2009
ymeaga1n said:
alephnull said:
disolitude said:
Name me 1 company that doesn't have questionable practices?

Remember the HP internal spying incident where the CEO spied on its board of directors with phone tabs?

MS is overly competitive for sure...but they employ many people...provide charity donations the size of small countries GDP and believe it or not...in most cases push the industry they are involved with forward.

 

There is something you should know about charities. I was raised in the West Palm Beach area and there is something called the charity circuit. Basically, a different charity holds a party/gala each night which allows people to throw lavish parties in a tax deductible way. Most of the time these charities barely break even on these parties^M^M^M^M^M^M^Mfundraisers. I think industry standard is 15% of the money taken in by charities on average actually makes it to it's cause.

There are some good charities like Oxfam, and I'm sure the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation does occasionally do good work. But if you think about it, handing his MS shares over to a non-profit trust under his control was the best way for him to avoid taxes and diversify his holdings. He is the richest man in the world, so he cannot pull the usual shenanigans as the politics are delicate.

Wow, are you that anti-ms that you can't even acknowledge the amazing work bill gates has done with the bill and medlina gates foundation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_and_Melinda_Gates_Foundation

Go do you're research, your comment is pathetic.

 

 

I am afraid I have done my research. I'm sorry that you feel my comment was pathetic.



vlad321 on 23 April 2009
Jo21 said:
vlad321 said:

Alright. Do you realize what Microsoft has actually done though? Bill Gates has single-handedly brought a cimputer into everyone's home. Unlike Apple he let anyone who could build a PC use windows, drastically lowering the price of computers.

We owe the state of the world quite literally to Microsoft and Microsoft alone. They brought acomputer nto every house.

 

then again he have barred any other third party.

 there is no support for linux even its now a nicer OS.

 

Again, because of him everyone has access to a computer and internet. We're so far ahead solely because of Microsoft.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

alephnull on 23 April 2009
vlad321 said:

Alright. Do you realize what Microsoft has actually done though? Bill Gates has single-handedly brought a cimputer into everyone's home. Unlike Apple he let anyone who could build a PC use windows, drastically lowering the price of computers.

We owe the state of the world quite literally to Microsoft and Microsoft alone. They brought acomputer nto every house.

 

Gates didn't bring any computer into anyone's home IBM did. If you want to thank someone for introducing the PC clone thank Compaq and IBM's thick headedness. MSDOS wasn't even the only OS out there as there was the superior DRDOS and CP\M. It was just the one that came with the IBM PC. IBM only contracted MS by acident due to a mixup with the wife of the Kidall. And even then all they did was subcontract the work out to seatle computing (w/o telling IBM) because they didn't do OSes.

So please explain to me how riding IBMs monopoly by being middlemen between IBM and seattle computing makes them responsible for "bringing a computer into every house".



SubiyaCryolite on 23 April 2009

Ubuntu 8.04 (+ compiz & awn) >> Windows Vista/7



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine

alephnull on 23 April 2009
vlad321 said:
Jo21 said:
vlad321 said:

Alright. Do you realize what Microsoft has actually done though? Bill Gates has single-handedly brought a cimputer into everyone's home. Unlike Apple he let anyone who could build a PC use windows, drastically lowering the price of computers.

We owe the state of the world quite literally to Microsoft and Microsoft alone. They brought acomputer nto every house.

 

then again he have barred any other third party.

 there is no support for linux even its now a nicer OS.

 

Again, because of him everyone has access to a computer and internet. We're so far ahead solely because of Microsoft.

MS was blindsided by the internet. In Gate's "The Road Ahead" (1995) with his predictions of the future there was no mention of the internet. This is why the internet is so unixified. If you had been around then trying to surf the web, mud, or play nettreck in windows 3.1 w/ trumpet winsock you would know. I know NT 4 straight up stole the BSD TCP stack.