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Forums - General - Two Al Qaeda Leaders Waterboarded 266 Times

I bet if you waterboarded someone before they had an orgasm it would be much more intense.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

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highwaystar101 said:
Tyrannical said:

A. Flogging is allowed in much more then 1% of the Islamic world. Compare waterboarding to flogging.

B. Waterboarding is not a punishment. It is an interogation technique. An effective one that can save lives.

I'm sorry Tyranical, but are you really saying that waterboarding is not a form torture??? I mean come on, you can't call it interogation. There are dozens of ways to interogate someone without resorting to sick and cruel methods. I'm sorry but it is torture and nothing else.

I know the people in Guantanamo bay are evil people, but being evil back brings you down to their level.

Look just watch the video and tell me if this person isn't being tortured and that the guy at the end is wrong.

 

Sorry, but that video did not look like torture (I only watched until congress showed up).

As far as the "brings you down to their level" comment, I could respond with a video showing them cutting a mans head off with a hack saw, but I think it would be safe to say that nothing we have ever done, brings us to there level.



One of them was the mastermind behind 9/11? Well shit, I think being waterboarded several hundred times is at worst fair compensation for being responsible for the deaths of thousands of people in NYC that day.



We could have forced them to share a cell with a cute little pot belly pig until they confessed, but I'm sure that would have been torture too.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

Tyrannical said:

It's a very humane method used to extract information without causing undue pain or any form or permanent injury. It's merely "unpleasant".

Compared to the punishments commonly legal in Islamic countries, the US must look like a Saint in comparison. Infact not only did the prisoner have BOTH hands and feet, he also appears to have all 10 fingers and toes. I see no electrical cables hooked up to his testicles, nor is he beaten bloody. I see no executoiner readying a sword to cut off his head, nor a torturer wiedling a whip, not an angry crowd of 9/11 victim survivors hurling stones at him.

 

 

No it's not humane, it's torture,... would you like it repeatedly done to you to extract information, no.

Also I think people seem to be under the impression that those (like me) who oppose the torture seem to symapthyse with other tortures around the world. A few people have said this and I have no idea where they have got it from. I don't just disagree with waterboarding, I disagree with all torture whether it be flogging or whatever. There is no justification for torutre whether it be interrogation, punishment or otherwise.

 



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highwaystar101 said:

 No it's not humane, it's torture,... would you like it repeatedly done to you to extract information, no.

 

 I honestly don't care if it is torture or not.

I don't think constitutional protections should be extended to foreign nationals waging an illegal war against the US. Our body of laws is a pact between the people of the US and the government, there should be no assumption that those rights are extended to outside parties. I also do not think that Geneva convention rights should be extended to them either as they are illegal combatants. Once it was determined they were illegal combatants and they were questioned, they shold have been hung.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

highwaystar101 said:

No it's not humane, it's torture,... would you like it repeatedly done to you to extract information, no.

 

So anything you do to me that I don’t like is torture?

In the video, it looked like they are simulating drowning, without actually harming him. They were just scaring the shit out of him.

When the police stop a 16 year old for speeding, and call 3 more cop cars to the scene to scare the shit out of him, are they torturing him?

If you get arrested, during interrogation, if the cops lie to you by telling you if you don’t give up information, they will lock you away for life (to scare you), is that torture?

It was an effective uncomfortable form of extracting information. Nothing more.



There are constitutional standards for determining whether something falls within cruel and unusual punishment. If you guys aren't going to apply the standard, then don't make these ridiculous arguments that the police "scaring" someone is torture. You are just using misdirection and making ludicrous arguments.

This is designated in the Army Field Manual as torture. Its obviously pretty clear that even people high up in the military believe this is an impermissible tactic.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

General David H. Petraeus, May 10th, 2007

Source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/other/petraeus_values-msg_torture070510.htm

Some may argue that we would be more effective if we sanctioned torture or other expedient methods to obtain information from the enemy. They would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary. Certainly, extreme physical action can make someone "talk;" however, what the individual says may be of questionable value. In fact, our experience in applying the interrogation standards laid out in the Army Field Manual (2-22.3) on Human Intelligence Collector Operations that was published last year shows that the techniques in the manual work effectively and humanely in eliciting information from detainees.

We are, indeed, warriors. We train to kill our enemies. We are engaged in combat, we must pursue the enemy relentlessly, and we must be violent at times. What sets us apart from our enemies in this fight, however, is how we behave. In everything we do, we must observe the standards and values that dictate that we treat noncombatants and detainees with dignity and respect



Halogamer would probably scream if he read that.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson