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Forums - PC - Apple responds to new MS ads

Cheebee said:
Good to see certain people feel the frothing desire to keep hammering Apple. They must feel threatened. Why else go through all this trouble, sheesh, some people here sound like 16th century Christians trying to convert heathens.

 

Apple fans are worse than any others when it comes to preachiness.  I suggest you don't start down that road - you won't like where it ends.



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What I don't get is why people have to be so pissed off at this? Do they like to waste energy at hating something? If people like to believe that Macs are better (which is subjective, I personally think the price tag is high but there is some nice hardware/software included) then let them be.  It's just annoying that others try to dictate you their tastes or say what you like is crap (that goes both ways). I understand people have opinions but hell if you don't like it, just shrug and move on...

*Sigh* I give up, this is pointless... If people like to be negative over a stupid thing like this well w/e.

I like OSX. I like XP. I like Ubuntu. <3



lolita said:

What I don't get is why people have to be so pissed off at this? Do they like to waste energy at hating something? If people like to believe that Macs are better (which is subjective, I personally think the price tag is high but there is some nice hardware/software included) then let them be.  It's just annoying that others try to dictate you their tastes or say what you like is crap (that goes both ways). I understand people have opinions but hell if you don't like it, just shrug and move on...

*Sigh* I give up, this is pointless... If people like to be negative over a stupid thing like this well w/e.

I like OSX. I like XP. I like Ubuntu. <3

 

Honestly, all my posts were made while I was waiting for my ode to run at work or while I was flying between my dailies in WoW. Yes, I know WoW has a lot of downtime. Perosnally I haven't "spent" any time. I just hate companies and products being presented as something they clearly aren't, and people who actually eat up that bullshit.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Plaupius said:

As much as I dislike these kinds of threads and all the hate flying back and forth, this is a legitimate question and I will try to answer it based on my own experiences. Before that, however, you might want the check out this article:

Living on Air: A Windows guru spends two weeks with a Mac

definitely an interesting read. clarified quite a bit of questions concerning macs.

Ok, now onto my answer. I'm sorry that it is so long, but I feel that I need to get into detail to express my points.

1. Installing programs: .... but the majority of programs are actually "self-supporting" packages, meaning that the program icon you see actually contains everything the program needs. For those programs, installation is a simple copy-operation: you copy the program anywhere you want, most commonly in the Applications folder. If you want to uninstall a program, simply delete/drag it to trashcan. Both ways have pros and cons, but I can make an argument that the drag-to-Applications is easier, though an installation wizard is not much harder to be honest.

fair enough. i can see the advantages to this, but how many programs are like this? How easy would it be to go into said programs' files themselves and edit them to your liking? I mean, i concede to your point because i will accept that the majority of people wont ever touch their "program files" folder in windows, but i often find myself playing with the files inside, so i'm curious. I'm assuming its more specific to the program, i.e. a game like Diablo II will still have its folder repository (otherwise i think i'd hear about more tech support to get it to work for mods) while a standard program wont. Nice feature indeed.

2. General ease of use. This is a thing that is a bit difficult to explain because it is a factor of a great number of things. The foundation is that the OS X is a coherent entity: things work the same way everywhere. Once you get the hang of it, you can use different applications easier since the UI is coherent, and that is thanks to the Cocoa API and Apple design guidelines. That's the foundation that wasn't there in Windows at least up to XP, I haven't used Vista or 7 so I don't know how they are.

The bolded is i think the biggest argument when it comes to ease of use. In this case it seems like the argument is that PCs rely on individual pieces working together (both hardware and software-wise), as opposed to Macs which come with programs that work well with each other. Are Macs still as restrictive when it comes to hardware as they used to be? as in, a few years back you'd have to jump through hurdles to upgrade your Mac due to proprietary hardware, as opposed to simply buying the pieces that would work well on a PC and putting it in a Mac.

On top of the foundation, there are a number of extremely useful features that I use daily in my work. Exposé, Spotlight search, TimeMachine backups and QuickLook are the most useful ones, and now that I have gotten used to them I can't really think of going back to working without them. They are really invaluable tools. I use Spaces (virtual desktops) a bit, but the OS X implementation does leave a lot to be desired so I don't include it here.

i cant really comment all that much here. from what i understand, expose brings up windows of the programs you are running, and then you can click it and get to it quicker - that and you can access it by simply pressing an F# key for that matter. Sounds very useful, even if alt-tab does something similar (albeit with smaller windows) - i prefer the mac implementation though. more because its 1 key to press, not two. the others - aside from time machine, which i assume is just Mac's system restore, i dont know how they work. i'll look around in a bit.

Then, in addition to the abovementioned, there are a number of smaller but still very useful features/apps that are part of the OS. One example is the virtual keyboard: want to know where you can get a certain special character from your keyboard? Just click the virtual keyboard open, and you'll see what key does what in real time as you press control, alt, shift etc. And you can of course type using the virtual keyboard and mouse/trackpad. It's not needed very often, but it can be handy on those occasions.

im assuming its more that the virtual keyboard is easier to get at? since the windows one is hidden in the accessibilities options folder, so most windows users never even notice it exists.ill give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that the other smaller features and apps make it worth it and dont have their windows equivalent. 

One of the biggest shortcomings of XP was the atrocious networking control it had. I use my computer on several different wireless networks, some of which require different settings. OS X has built on networking location profiles that are easy as 1-2-3 to create, so I just set up the networks once and I'm done with it. With XP I had to manually change the settings for different networks whenever I changed location, again I don't know how Vista handles this. It probably is a lot better than XP.

ill give you this one - i've never had to network since i dont have multiple computers, so i've never expirienced any problems with networking...since i've never had to do it.

Also, the way OS X handles external displays is IMO far superior to what I've encountered in Windows, though even OS X is not a hundred percent perfect. But it does remember the external displays I have used, and the display setup I used with them so when I plug that projector in to give a presentation, I don't have to care about the settings. And when I use a projector/display for the first time, I don't go through the fn-f5 or whatever button merry-go-round that I see so often on PC laptop users do when they are connecting to a projector: I go to the System Preferences -> Displays and click "Recognize displays" and it does just that and right there I can choose the layout and resolution of my display setup.

ill give you this one as well - i've never had problems with it (since i know to press fn-f8 in my case), but to anyone that is unfamiliar with windows won't be sure about what to do and what not.

One example of "how things just work" is when I captured video for the first time. I connected my DV camera with a firewire cable, opened iMovie and clicked import video button and that was it. Afterwards, if you want to burn your movie to DVD or export it to Web, iMovie seamlessly connects with iDVD and iWeb. Which all connect with iPhoto and iTunes as well. My entire iPhoto library is accessible right from inside iMovie, as is my iTunes library. And the same goes for all the iSuite programs. While the programs themselves are limited, they work so well together that using them is relatively easy even for a total newbie.

this goes with the above, the programs working well together as opposed to windows' individualistic nature of its programs.

The last thing I'm going to mention is the hardware. You may think that it is 100% same as PCs, but it is not. While a majority of the components are exactly the same, the case is not. The displays are different at least in that Apple displays are "greener" than other laptop manufacturers' displayes. The chassis is different and the design and build quality is IMO far superior, even moreso now with the UniBody Macs. There is of course the MagSafe connector which is really handy, and there is the IR remote control that goes with FrontRow to remotely control multimedia functions (though sadly the IR remote is nowadays not included in the package, my MBP had it). The last thing I'll mention is the trackpad with multi-touch support. My own old MBP only has two-finger scrolling and nothing else, but even that is just incredibly handy. The newer models have pinch in/out for zoom, two-finger rotate, two-finger tap for right click, three-finger scroll, and some four finger gestures for Exposé. You can customize the controls, of course, but the default setup is well thought-out.

ill give you this one as well - the trackpad features sound very interesting and convenient, in particular the zooming. But i would never give up my two mouse buttons for macs single button + option key, but Macs can take regular mice so thats not a large complaint - i do feel that having the option key and one mouse button is retarded though,since i dont think it takes much to have a right click. but thats personal preference.

That's it for now. There are many more things I could mention, but I hope I have managed to explain a bit why I think OS X is easier to use than Windows or Linux. Yeah, I do have some very limited experiences of Linux, and those experiences have not been really supporting that idea that Linux is particularily easy to use.

responces in red.

Probably the only thing i have to ask right now is - how convenient is bootcamp exactly? The reason i ask because while yes, you can switch to windows at any given moment to play whatever game you want, but is that its only purpose at that point? I like to do other things while i might have a game running (perhaps im busy waiting for something time-based to happen in the game, for example) and would want to do other things. which also means i'd be essentially installing the same programs twice over so that i could be able to use them while not directly playing a game and whatnot. if anything, i'd expect what happened to me when i tried dual booting linux - because i wasnt used to the OS and only had a select few things to do in said OS to begin with, i found myself not using linux at all since it allways meant having to stop whatever i was doing to switch over, and then feeling limited once i was on the other side, basically. It's probably less of a concern with windows / macs since you'd only switch over for games, which means less reason to unless you directly want to play said smaller games (bigger games are now mac compliant and what not).

aside from that, i'll give macs their due credit, even if i still don't feel that they are worth their premium, but then again, im cheap. I'd adapt to linux if i had to buy the next version of windows (as in, it didnt come pre-installed with my computer).



um..stuff

vlad321 said:
novasonic said:
I lawled when I saw that commercial. Oh no I payed a little over 1000 for a mac~~~ Oh no the 2 years of flawless computing wasn't worth it~~~

 

My crrent PC is 2 years old and I've never had a problem outside of McAffee acting like a virus once. My old PC was 3 years old and I never had a problem with it at all except 1 case of malware. The rest of the time was, as you put it, "flawless computing." So yeah, why pay 1000 again?

 

Yeah but I've only had it 2 years. I'm sure I'll get a lot more life out of it. I'm sure lots of people have had no problems with windows. But I did. Therefore I switched.




8th gen predictions. (made early 2014)
PS4: 60-65m
WiiU: 30-35m
X1: 30-35m
3DS: 80-85m
PSV: 15-20m

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Dragonos said:
Plaupius said:

As much as I dislike these kinds of threads and all the hate flying back and forth, this is a legitimate question and I will try to answer it based on my own experiences. Before that, however, you might want the check out this article:

Living on Air: A Windows guru spends two weeks with a Mac

definitely an interesting read. clarified quite a bit of questions concerning macs.

Ok, now onto my answer. I'm sorry that it is so long, but I feel that I need to get into detail to express my points.

1. Installing programs: .... but the majority of programs are actually "self-supporting" packages, meaning that the program icon you see actually contains everything the program needs. For those programs, installation is a simple copy-operation: you copy the program anywhere you want, most commonly in the Applications folder. If you want to uninstall a program, simply delete/drag it to trashcan. Both ways have pros and cons, but I can make an argument that the drag-to-Applications is easier, though an installation wizard is not much harder to be honest.

fair enough. i can see the advantages to this, but how many programs are like this? How easy would it be to go into said programs' files themselves and edit them to your liking? I mean, i concede to your point because i will accept that the majority of people wont ever touch their "program files" folder in windows, but i often find myself playing with the files inside, so i'm curious. I'm assuming its more specific to the program, i.e. a game like Diablo II will still have its folder repository (otherwise i think i'd hear about more tech support to get it to work for mods) while a standard program wont. Nice feature indeed.

I'd say most programs are like that, and the ones with installers are the exceptions. Like I said, both ways have their advantages: with installers, you can better control the installation of shared resources, but that also makes uninstalling harder. The normal OS X program is an archive and you can freely browse the contents of it, I've never tried changing anything inside a program so I don't know if there are any hurdles to jump there. 

2. General ease of use. This is a thing that is a bit difficult to explain because it is a factor of a great number of things. The foundation is that the OS X is a coherent entity: things work the same way everywhere. Once you get the hang of it, you can use different applications easier since the UI is coherent, and that is thanks to the Cocoa API and Apple design guidelines. That's the foundation that wasn't there in Windows at least up to XP, I haven't used Vista or 7 so I don't know how they are.

The bolded is i think the biggest argument when it comes to ease of use. In this case it seems like the argument is that PCs rely on individual pieces working together (both hardware and software-wise), as opposed to Macs which come with programs that work well with each other. Are Macs still as restrictive when it comes to hardware as they used to be? as in, a few years back you'd have to jump through hurdles to upgrade your Mac due to proprietary hardware, as opposed to simply buying the pieces that would work well on a PC and putting it in a Mac.

I've actually never upgraded anything other than memory on my MBP so I can't really comment on that. I guess that for anything other than the memory and HDD, you're going to face problems because there might not be the necessary drivers / firmware support. Keeping the Mac configurations limited is a choice Apple has made, and it poses problems for some. I think the biggest issue must be the graphics card support, or the lack of available options. That said, there is generally less reason to upgrade your Mac hardware because the OS X generally doesn't slow down with new versions, in fact it sometimes gets faster. And gaming is not really well suited for Macs yet, though some companies are porting their games to OS X.

On top of the foundation, there are a number of extremely useful features that I use daily in my work. Exposé, Spotlight search, TimeMachine backups and QuickLook are the most useful ones, and now that I have gotten used to them I can't really think of going back to working without them. They are really invaluable tools. I use Spaces (virtual desktops) a bit, but the OS X implementation does leave a lot to be desired so I don't include it here.

i cant really comment all that much here. from what i understand, expose brings up windows of the programs you are running, and then you can click it and get to it quicker - that and you can access it by simply pressing an F# key for that matter. Sounds very useful, even if alt-tab does something similar (albeit with smaller windows) - i prefer the mac implementation though. more because its 1 key to press, not two. the others - aside from time machine, which i assume is just Mac's system restore, i dont know how they work. i'll look around in a bit.

Exposé is actually a bit more than that: you can display all open windows in all open applications (except those windows that have been minimized to the Dock), display all open windows in the active application, and display the desktop. And you can assign different functions to "hot corners", for example when I swipe my mouse to the top right corner of the screen, it exposes all open windows in the active application, and bottom right reveals the desktop.

Spotlight searches through your computer for anything you type, it includes the contents of files (such as Word docs, Excel sheets, emails in Mail, calendar, notes, contacts, applications, JPEG metadata etc.) and it does it on the fly. QuickLook lets you view files without opening any applications, so you can quickly check out Office docs, PDF files, movies etc. You just select the file and press spacebar and it instantly opens the file. And TimeMachine is a backup utility that makes the whole thing easy: when you plug in an external HDD, you can use it for TimeMachine backups. After that, whenever you connect that HDD TimeMachine makes hourly backups of your system, and afterwards you can browse the backup history and restore single files, folders etc. with a simple click. It has saved my butt a couple of times when I've misplaced a file.

Then, in addition to the abovementioned, there are a number of smaller but still very useful features/apps that are part of the OS. One example is the virtual keyboard: want to know where you can get a certain special character from your keyboard? Just click the virtual keyboard open, and you'll see what key does what in real time as you press control, alt, shift etc. And you can of course type using the virtual keyboard and mouse/trackpad. It's not needed very often, but it can be handy on those occasions.

im assuming its more that the virtual keyboard is easier to get at? since the windows one is hidden in the accessibilities options folder, so most windows users never even notice it exists.ill give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that the other smaller features and apps make it worth it and dont have their windows equivalent. 

Maybe it's that, quite honestly I never came across the Windows equivalent in all those years. So yeah, there might be Windows equivalents that I'm not aware of, especially in Vista which I know practically nothing about in practice.

One of the biggest shortcomings of XP was the atrocious networking control it had. I use my computer on several different wireless networks, some of which require different settings. OS X has built on networking location profiles that are easy as 1-2-3 to create, so I just set up the networks once and I'm done with it. With XP I had to manually change the settings for different networks whenever I changed location, again I don't know how Vista handles this. It probably is a lot better than XP.

ill give you this one - i've never had to network since i dont have multiple computers, so i've never expirienced any problems with networking...since i've never had to do it.

It's not having multiple computers, it's having multiple locations where I take my laptop into. Most places have your standard automatic configs via DHCP, but not all. I know some 3rd parties have applications for controlling network profiles in Windows, so it is doable, just that it is such a basic feature IMO that it really ought to be a part of the OS.

Also, the way OS X handles external displays is IMO far superior to what I've encountered in Windows, though even OS X is not a hundred percent perfect. But it does remember the external displays I have used, and the display setup I used with them so when I plug that projector in to give a presentation, I don't have to care about the settings. And when I use a projector/display for the first time, I don't go through the fn-f5 or whatever button merry-go-round that I see so often on PC laptop users do when they are connecting to a projector: I go to the System Preferences -> Displays and click "Recognize displays" and it does just that and right there I can choose the layout and resolution of my display setup.

ill give you this one as well - i've never had problems with it (since i know to press fn-f8 in my case), but to anyone that is unfamiliar with windows won't be sure about what to do and what not.

I've come across this countless times, and these people know how to use their computer: they connect the projector, then press fn-F5 (or whatever) and wait, nothing happens, they press it again, something happens but not what they wanted, press again and repeat until you get the results you want. Still, the big thing is that OS X remembers the display setups: when I go to work and plug in my LCD, it switches the setup so that the LCD is the primary desktop and the laptop screen is an extension of it. When I plug in my projector, it switches to two display setup and uses the laptop as a secondary screen to show me previews of my Keynote presentation slides.

One example of "how things just work" is when I captured video for the first time. I connected my DV camera with a firewire cable, opened iMovie and clicked import video button and that was it. Afterwards, if you want to burn your movie to DVD or export it to Web, iMovie seamlessly connects with iDVD and iWeb. Which all connect with iPhoto and iTunes as well. My entire iPhoto library is accessible right from inside iMovie, as is my iTunes library. And the same goes for all the iSuite programs. While the programs themselves are limited, they work so well together that using them is relatively easy even for a total newbie.

this goes with the above, the programs working well together as opposed to windows' individualistic nature of its programs.

Yes, in a way it is a pity that Microsoft has limited itself to making mostly individual things. They can do suites pretty well, Microsoft Office is a good example of well thought out and working integration and interoperability, but as a whole they could be so much more. Then again, I guess the dominant market position and antitrust law suits are at least partially to blame.

The last thing I'm going to mention is the hardware. You may think that it is 100% same as PCs, but it is not. While a majority of the components are exactly the same, the case is not. The displays are different at least in that Apple displays are "greener" than other laptop manufacturers' displayes. The chassis is different and the design and build quality is IMO far superior, even moreso now with the UniBody Macs. There is of course the MagSafe connector which is really handy, and there is the IR remote control that goes with FrontRow to remotely control multimedia functions (though sadly the IR remote is nowadays not included in the package, my MBP had it). The last thing I'll mention is the trackpad with multi-touch support. My own old MBP only has two-finger scrolling and nothing else, but even that is just incredibly handy. The newer models have pinch in/out for zoom, two-finger rotate, two-finger tap for right click, three-finger scroll, and some four finger gestures for Exposé. You can customize the controls, of course, but the default setup is well thought-out.

ill give you this one as well - the trackpad features sound very interesting and convenient, in particular the zooming. But i would never give up my two mouse buttons for macs single button + option key, but Macs can take regular mice so thats not a large complaint - i do feel that having the option key and one mouse button is retarded though,since i dont think it takes much to have a right click. but thats personal preference.

These issues with mice must be the most commonly held misconception about Macs. The standard Apple mouse has 4 buttons + the scroll ball. The trackpads support "right click" in numerous ways: press two fingers on the pad and click, tap with two fingers, or you can designate the lower right corner of the trackpad to "right click". That, along with the multitouch features make all PC trackpads quite obsolete. And yeah, Mac trackpads are much bigger than PC trackpads which makes them more useful for actual working. The new, buttonless trackpads are really quite huge :)

That's it for now. There are many more things I could mention, but I hope I have managed to explain a bit why I think OS X is easier to use than Windows or Linux. Yeah, I do have some very limited experiences of Linux, and those experiences have not been really supporting that idea that Linux is particularily easy to use.

responces in red.

Probably the only thing i have to ask right now is - how convenient is bootcamp exactly? The reason i ask because while yes, you can switch to windows at any given moment to play whatever game you want, but is that its only purpose at that point? I like to do other things while i might have a game running (perhaps im busy waiting for something time-based to happen in the game, for example) and would want to do other things. which also means i'd be essentially installing the same programs twice over so that i could be able to use them while not directly playing a game and whatnot. if anything, i'd expect what happened to me when i tried dual booting linux - because i wasnt used to the OS and only had a select few things to do in said OS to begin with, i found myself not using linux at all since it allways meant having to stop whatever i was doing to switch over, and then feeling limited once i was on the other side, basically. It's probably less of a concern with windows / macs since you'd only switch over for games, which means less reason to unless you directly want to play said smaller games (bigger games are now mac compliant and what not).

aside from that, i'll give macs their due credit, even if i still don't feel that they are worth their premium, but then again, im cheap. I'd adapt to linux if i had to buy the next version of windows (as in, it didnt come pre-installed with my computer).

My responses in green.

About bootcamp: I don't use it, but I don't think it is really that convenient because you have to reboot every time you want to change the OS. When I got my Mac, I also got Windows XP so I could install it on bootcamp, but after awhile I realized that I don't need it and I haven't done it. If I would need to run Windows, I'd rather try Parallels or WMWare.

One thing that is often overlooked when discussing the price of Macs is the resale value. There's a site (www.mac2sell.net) which gives you an evaluation of what your Mac is worth, and according to it my MBP is now worth about 700€ so if (and when) I decide to upgrade to the new unibody models, I can sell the old Mac and get about a 3rd of what I paid for it back.



Don't forget what MS will do is buy over apple and crash them



Plaupius said:
Dragonos said:
Plaupius said:

Exposé is actually a bit more than that: you can display all open windows in all open applications (except those windows that have been minimized to the Dock), display all open windows in the active application, and display the desktop. And you can assign different functions to "hot corners", for example when I swipe my mouse to the top right corner of the screen, it exposes all open windows in the active application, and bottom right reveals the desktop.

im a fan of being able to assign commands to your touchpad (and with a larger touchpad as you said, it wouldn't be a significant problem doing it by mistake, just takes some getting used to i assume). i'm impressed there.

Spotlight searches through your computer for anything you type, it includes the contents of files (such as Word docs, Excel sheets, emails in Mail, calendar, notes, contacts, applications, JPEG metadata etc.) and it does it on the fly. QuickLook lets you view files without opening any applications, so you can quickly check out Office docs, PDF files, movies etc. You just select the file and press spacebar and it instantly opens the file. And TimeMachine is a backup utility that makes the whole thing easy: when you plug in an external HDD, you can use it for TimeMachine backups. After that, whenever you connect that HDD TimeMachine makes hourly backups of your system, and afterwards you can browse the backup history and restore single files, folders etc. with a simple click. It has saved my butt a couple of times when I've misplaced a file.

i'm going to assume that the windows searchbar in vistas' start menu was lifted from OSX's spotlight feature then. I actually dont like the feature all that much - not that its not useful, far from it - i just dont like that it the cursor is on it natively when i open the start menu, so i no longer can open start menu programs unless i click them from the start menu manually (as opposed to simply pressing "n" to open notepad, it'd type "n" into the search field. i dont like that). i dont understand quicklook though, it doesnt open an application to run the file, but it opens the file? I'm assuming you mean that you dont have to open an application and then load the file but im still confused there. As for Timemachine - very useful feature. the only times i see that on windows lately is when the external harddrive comes with said software already installed.

I've come across this countless times, and these people know how to use their computer: they connect the projector, then press fn-F5 (or whatever) and wait, nothing happens, they press it again, something happens but not what they wanted, press again and repeat until you get the results you want. Still, the big thing is that OS X remembers the display setups: when I go to work and plug in my LCD, it switches the setup so that the LCD is the primary desktop and the laptop screen is an extension of it. When I plug in my projector, it switches to two display setup and uses the laptop as a secondary screen to show me previews of my Keynote presentation slides.

I'm impressed here as well - remembering which display and displaying it correctly is wonderful, even if i have no use for it right now.

Yes, in a way it is a pity that Microsoft has limited itself to making mostly individual things. They can do suites pretty well, Microsoft Office is a good example of well thought out and working integration and interoperability, but as a whole they could be so much more. Then again, I guess the dominant market position and antitrust law suits are at least partially to blame.

agreed. on the one hand, i've come to like the individualistic nature of programs on windows - i dont know if it's because i've been trained to think that way though. But i guess theres the ease of use thing again - having to download a new program (read: finding a freeware program that will do it) whenever you need to handle something new is a drawback, even if it doesnt take much more than a google or cnet search.

These issues with mice must be the most commonly held misconception about Macs. The standard Apple mouse has 4 buttons + the scroll ball. The trackpads support "right click" in numerous ways: press two fingers on the pad and click, tap with two fingers, or you can designate the lower right corner of the trackpad to "right click". That, along with the multitouch features make all PC trackpads quite obsolete. And yeah, Mac trackpads are much bigger than PC trackpads which makes them more useful for actual working. The new, buttonless trackpads are really quite huge :)

well. first off - the macs ive come in contact with either have a standard two-button + wheel mouse, or are the huge clear plastic ones with a scroll ball and only single clicks, so while its a misconception, its true based on personal expirience. as for the track pad info - its interesting, but i think i'd would mess with me more than i'd like. still an interesting evolution of the trackpad though - im just a bit more on the traditional side.

My responses in green.

About bootcamp: I don't use it, but I don't think it is really that convenient because you have to reboot every time you want to change the OS. When I got my Mac, I also got Windows XP so I could install it on bootcamp, but after awhile I realized that I don't need it and I haven't done it. If I would need to run Windows, I'd rather try Parallels or WMWare.

One thing that is often overlooked when discussing the price of Macs is the resale value. There's a site (www.mac2sell.net) which gives you an evaluation of what your Mac is worth, and according to it my MBP is now worth about 700€ so if (and when) I decide to upgrade to the new unibody models, I can sell the old Mac and get about a 3rd of what I paid for it back.

mines are in black this time.

two more things - i fully agree - VMware (or, rather, the freeware that was on the "windows guru tries a mac" link, sun's virtual box) would be superior to dual booting, since having to switch over to play a game and switch back to...do everything else is just an annoying hassle to me - not a big one, but definitely enough to think twice about whether i want to bother with playing TF2 or not.

second - regarding its resale - i can understand why the resale value would be higher than its equivalently powered PC laptop when taking into account build quality, but i would also think its more due to apple's release plan. that is - models stay the same price regardless of how late into the model it is (which also greatly pisses me off, since the last time i checked, a newer model was released ~2 months after the start of the school year, which means that anyone who bought a mac overpaid roughly 500 dollars minimum for the same power. its not because of the premium here, its more because college students who already dont have that much money ended up drastically overpaying for their computer IMO, with the exception of the expirienced mac users that know to wait for a new model launch). Also, i do think its how, since Macs aren't geared towards games (yet), stronger Macs aren't all that neccessary, so buying an old mac is more acceptable than say, buying and old PC - that and like you said, with newer OS's actually making the computer run faster (occasionally), there is less worry about buying an old mac that will run slow. its still there, just not as worrysome as say buying a windows XP PC and then trying to load Vista on it. Still, it's higher resale value is worth noting, even if i'd never resell my computers (i either give them away or i keep them, since my old XP laptop can still run the same older games i run on this thing, and its over 4 years old now).

 



um..stuff

Dragonos said:
Plaupius said:
Dragonos said:

im a fan of being able to assign commands to your touchpad (and with a larger touchpad as you said, it wouldn't be a significant problem doing it by mistake, just takes some getting used to i assume). i'm impressed there.

Yeah, those things are not anything major by themselves, but when you do actual work, they save you a LOT of time and trouble. And when you have many such features, they add up.

i'm going to assume that the windows searchbar in vistas' start menu was lifted from OSX's spotlight feature then. I actually dont like the feature all that much - not that its not useful, far from it - i just dont like that it the cursor is on it natively when i open the start menu, so i no longer can open start menu programs unless i click them from the start menu manually (as opposed to simply pressing "n" to open notepad, it'd type "n" into the search field. i dont like that). i dont understand quicklook though, it doesnt open an application to run the file, but it opens the file? I'm assuming you mean that you dont have to open an application and then load the file but im still confused there. As for Timemachine - very useful feature. the only times i see that on windows lately is when the external harddrive comes with said software already installed.

The Vista search is probably quite similar, except that in OS X there is no start menu and you hit Command-Space to activate Spotlight. For quickly launching applications, nothing beats QuickSilver, though. It is by far my favorite app ever!

About QuickLook, it opens the file in a separate popup "window", it's a bit hard to explain but maybe this Apple marketing video will clarify it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqjH0_E4pxQ

I'm impressed here as well - remembering which display and displaying it correctly is wonderful, even if i have no use for it right now.

Yep, it is a very handy feature. The problem is, having used to it I now crave for more advanced features: for example, it would be great if OS X would remember the position of each app in each different display configuration so that I wouldn't have to manually reposition them when I switch display setups :)

agreed. on the one hand, i've come to like the individualistic nature of programs on windows - i dont know if it's because i've been trained to think that way though. But i guess theres the ease of use thing again - having to download a new program (read: finding a freeware program that will do it) whenever you need to handle something new is a drawback, even if it doesnt take much more than a google or cnet search.

That's true, and it also does give you more freedom because currently, the iSuite apps do have an advantage over other apps that would do similar things. Like I've mentioned before, I haven't found a real alternative for IrfanView: something lightweight, opens nearly all image files you can think of and is extremely useful for sorting through and resizing images. iPhoto, while ok for the things it's meant for, does not cut it for me.

well. first off - the macs ive come in contact with either have a standard two-button + wheel mouse, or are the huge clear plastic ones with a scroll ball and only single clicks, so while its a misconception, its true based on personal expirience. as for the track pad info - its interesting, but i think i'd would mess with me more than i'd like. still an interesting evolution of the trackpad though - im just a bit more on the traditional side.

Actually, the "huge clear plastic ones with a scroll ball" most probably do have 4 buttons, or ways to click them: left finger, right finger, scroll ball can be clicked and the fourth button is activated by squeezing the mouse from the sides, similar to a thumb button. The buttons are not visible, but they are there if it is the mighty mouse you have seen. I can't remember if any other Apple mouse has had the scroll ball.

My responses in green.

About bootcamp: I don't use it, but I don't think it is really that convenient because you have to reboot every time you want to change the OS. When I got my Mac, I also got Windows XP so I could install it on bootcamp, but after awhile I realized that I don't need it and I haven't done it. If I would need to run Windows, I'd rather try Parallels or WMWare.

One thing that is often overlooked when discussing the price of Macs is the resale value. There's a site (www.mac2sell.net) which gives you an evaluation of what your Mac is worth, and according to it my MBP is now worth about 700€ so if (and when) I decide to upgrade to the new unibody models, I can sell the old Mac and get about a 3rd of what I paid for it back.

mines are in black this time.

two more things - i fully agree - VMware (or, rather, the freeware that was on the "windows guru tries a mac" link, sun's virtual box) would be superior to dual booting, since having to switch over to play a game and switch back to...do everything else is just an annoying hassle to me - not a big one, but definitely enough to think twice about whether i want to bother with playing TF2 or not.

second - regarding its resale - i can understand why the resale value would be higher than its equivalently powered PC laptop when taking into account build quality, but i would also think its more due to apple's release plan. that is - models stay the same price regardless of how late into the model it is (which also greatly pisses me off, since the last time i checked, a newer model was released ~2 months after the start of the school year, which means that anyone who bought a mac overpaid roughly 500 dollars minimum for the same power. its not because of the premium here, its more because college students who already dont have that much money ended up drastically overpaying for their computer IMO, with the exception of the expirienced mac users that know to wait for a new model launch). Also, i do think its how, since Macs aren't geared towards games (yet), stronger Macs aren't all that neccessary, so buying an old mac is more acceptable than say, buying and old PC - that and like you said, with newer OS's actually making the computer run faster (occasionally), there is less worry about buying an old mac that will run slow. its still there, just not as worrysome as say buying a windows XP PC and then trying to load Vista on it. Still, it's higher resale value is worth noting, even if i'd never resell my computers (i either give them away or i keep them, since my old XP laptop can still run the same older games i run on this thing, and its over 4 years old now).

My responses are again in green.

Yes, the "real value" of Macs decreases somewhat over time, although Apple does upgrade the models for faster processors and bigger HDDs / more memory gradually. Maybe not quite fast enough to keep the value constant, but you do get more for your buck as time goes on. For example, my MacBook Pro is from the very first Intel shipments, 1,83 GHz Core Duo with a max 2gigs of memory and a standard 80 gigs of HDD. The latest pre-unibody MacBook Pros had 2,5 GHz Core 2 Duo with max 6 gigs of memory and 320 gigs HDD standard. Also, the graphics card was upgraded from ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB all the way to Geforce 8600M GT with 512MB. Other things were upgraded too, such as the wireless networking, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro has a nice table of the different hardware revisions. So, in late 2008 you got a heck of a lot more for the same price than I got on March 2006.



epic



You should be beaten, burned to ashes then someone should throw your ashes from a plane