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Forums - General Discussion - Tea Parties: Whats really going on?

TheRealMafoo said:

Are you arguing with me, or venting to me?

Your views and mine are pretty much the same. What did I say to piss you off?

 

 

I'm not arguing or venting... I'm telling.  I argue and debate whent here is another possible outcome.  I tell when this is what people need to here.

If our views were the same then your first response to mine would have been what I just said... not the other way around.  Maybe that's the difference.  I don't hold back.



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Why is it that people think that you cant make money by spending money>?



I think I recall similar protests during the clinton administration. Newt Gingrich led a big republican house victory then.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

theprof00 said:
Why is it that people think that you cant make money by spending money>?

I don't think that's the problem we're having here.  Rather it's simply that you can't clear debt by over spending and increasing the debt.

The reduction of debt can only be achieved by a reduction in spending and increase in savings.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

theprof00 said:
Why is it that people think that you cant make money by spending money>?

 

Because you can't, or at least you can't by spending money on what the government is spending money on ... Money is "Created" when there has been an increase in the amount of valuable products or services offered within an economy.

 



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Tyrannical said:
I think I recall similar protests during the clinton administration. Newt Gingrich led a big republican house victory then.

The country was a much different place in 1994.  For example, people were actively protesting healthcare reform then because they were scared of "big government."  Now they are actively encouraging the government to go forward on healthcare reform.

And the government can make money by spending money, although not in the same way that a business would.

Lets say you have a situation like the one we were in several months ago when Lehman Brothers went under.  The economy is taking a major hit and is slipping into a recession.  The private sector has literally stopped investing and banks are holding onto their assets for dear life.  Unemployment is rapidly accelerating and the DOW is plummeting.  The consumer has put away his credit card for the first time in decades.  If the government does nothing, it risks allowing the economic downturn to snowball exponentially since all those negative economic factors will feed each other and cause things to get even worse, particularly if the banking system goes under.  Systemic instability in the banking system is the #1 fastest way to land yourself right in the middle of a depression (see The Great Depression).

The government can't make money if the country isn't making money.  Even the alternative Republican budget had the government running major deficits for several years.  Without a healthy economy, the government suffers just like everyone else.  If the government does inject capital into the market through monetary policy (which had already happened since interest rates were near 0%) and fiscal policy once monetary policy has proven ineffective, it can prevent the economy from driving off a cliff to the point that no one can do anything about it (see The Great Depression - took the unprecedented level of government spending in WW2 to get us out of it).  And yes, government spending DID get us out of the Great Depression.  It was the government's spending in WW2 that did.  FDR didn't spend ENOUGH money since the economic downturn had already snowballed and fallen off the cliff and there wasn't much he could realistically do.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Oh boy. We didn't get out of the depression until AFTER WWII. All WWII did was end much of the unemployment problems of the Great Depression. The real end came about when the taxes and spending were cut after the war.

Government spending our money to prop up an already unstable economy is the worst thing they can do. Let things crash that need to crash, liquidate the bad stuff and let the nation heal like it's supposed to.

Artificially inflating a capitalist economy is a big, big no no. Those near 0% interest rates should never have seen the light of day in this nation. EVER.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

So do you really think letting 60-70% of the major financial institutions fail would have been the best thing for the economy and would have allowed the economy to recover faster?

Many of them were just in a temporary rough spot. Some of the banks that people were saying "needed to fail" have posted a profit this quarter.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

HappySqurriel said:
theprof00 said:
Why is it that people think that you cant make money by spending money>?

 

Because you can't, or at least you can't by spending money on what the government is spending money on ... Money is "Created" when there has been an increase in the amount of valuable products or services offered within an economy.

 

also @viper

what about china, who is losing money every day because of a tanking dollar value?

 



You still don't get it, the banks were in a rough spot for sure, and the only viable option at the time was to bail them out. This might have worked if we fixed the problem that caused this in the first place. The laws that dictate how many sub-prime mortgages a bank must make. This is so typical of government, force and make it profitable for banks to give out bad mortgages, then when the money comes due and nobody can pay out, the government steps in and says here we will give you MORE money...but we run you now, which means you must give out more loans. it's really quite simple, I don't know why you all must try to complicate this. Fix the problem, don't feed it!



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