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Forums - General - Arguments Against God

ManusJustus said:
Onyxmeth said:

The only God I saw contested in the OP is the God based on Christian belief. So when do we get around disproving all the other ones ManusJustus?

The Old Testament sums up the God of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.  The argument covers other gods with human characteristics as well.  I cannot think of a God in any religion that does not have human characteristics (please feel free to prove me wrong).

God and gods of Hinduism: Brahman:

    For Hinduism there may be millions of gods!... however, these gods are not God, they can not make stars, nor roses, nor human hearts... they should not be adored.

    "Brahman" is called the Absolute, the only one real God.
    Though believed by many Hinduism to be a polytheistic religion, the basis of Hinduism is the belief in the unity of everything. This totality is called Brahman, the Absolute, the Supreme Being, the Ultimate Reality, the Divine...
also called "Bhagvan", or "Ishvara"... the purpose of life is to realize that we are part of God and by doing so we can leave this plane of existence and rejoin with God.
   
Everything in the universe is part of Brahman, (including each one of us), but Brahman is more than the sum of everything in the universe.
    Hindus believe that each soul is an individual, and yet is also a part of the Divine; is part of "God".

   
Brahman is not a personal being in the sense that Christians think of God as a personal being. For most Hindus this God is not a person but a force, an energy, a principle... Brahman is entirely impersonal, and entirely impossible to know or to describe. Brahman is a supreme, perfect spirit or force that permeates everything. 

Different aspects of Brahman:
    There is only one ultimate reality, Brahman. But that ultimate reality shows itself in many forms or functions, and some of those formsor functions are called gods,
they are not separate gods but they are valid to worship, according to Hinduism.
    The gods Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva, for example, are different epic aspects of Brahman:

 



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



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Strategyking92 said:
I don't think you really grasp the concept of the christian god.
God said he created man in his image.. So god is human-like if you believe in the bible. However, he is also presented as an omniscient being, while having interest in a select few individuals. You could, however, make the argument that he needed to have interest in these individuals for people to have faith that he exists through religion spreading. As for god being cruel in the old testament, he was only testing humanity and punishing the wicked.
He continues to punish the wicked in the new testament, but not in his godly form.

And since christianity, judaism, and islam make almost all of the major world religions, I am confident with the "everything happens for a reason" belief over pure dumb luck.

Man's image came from billions of years of evolution.   And I dont think God (assuming he created the universe) would be made of matter or energy (since he created them) so its hard to think of him as actually having an image anyway.  Unless he created matter and energy them molded himself into some form of it, but why would he do that?

Why would God's personality change from Old to New Testament?  Wouldnt an all powerful and all knowing being not need to learn from experience?

 



Onyxmeth said:
ManusJustus said:
Onyxmeth said:

The only God I saw contested in the OP is the God based on Christian belief. So when do we get around disproving all the other ones ManusJustus?

The Old Testament sums up the God of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.  The argument covers other gods with human characteristics as well.  I cannot think of a God in any religion that does not have human characteristics (please feel free to prove me wrong).

God and gods of Hinduism: Brahman:

    For Hinduism there may be millions of gods!... however, these gods are not God, they can not make stars, nor roses, nor human hearts... they should not be adored.

    "Brahman" is called the Absolute, the only one real God.
    Though believed by many Hinduism to be a polytheistic religion, the basis of Hinduism is the belief in the unity of everything. This totality is called Brahman, the Absolute, the Supreme Being, the Ultimate Reality, the Divine...
also called "Bhagvan", or "Ishvara"... the purpose of life is to realize that we are part of God and by doing so we can leave this plane of existence and rejoin with God.
   
Everything in the universe is part of Brahman, (including each one of us), but Brahman is more than the sum of everything in the universe.
    Hindus believe that each soul is an individual, and yet is also a part of the Divine; is part of "God".

   
Brahman is not a personal being in the sense that Christians think of God as a personal being. For most Hindus this God is not a person but a force, an energy, a principle... Brahman is entirely impersonal, and entirely impossible to know or to describe. Brahman is a supreme, perfect spirit or force that permeates everything. 

Different aspects of Brahman:
    There is only one ultimate reality, Brahman. But that ultimate reality shows itself in many forms or functions, and some of those formsor functions are called gods,
they are not separate gods but they are valid to worship, according to Hinduism.
    The gods Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva, for example, are different epic aspects of Brahman:

 

Thank you, I will read up on Brahman.

 



Kasz216 said:
WessleWoggle said:

Argument against theistic god of religions: No proof

Argument against a loving god that created everything: Suffering

Argument against the unknowable deist god: No proof

I don't know.  Without suffering there is no free will.

Without free will there is no reason to create people since they all just end up the same or as mindless puppets.

Creating a world where everything is equal and everything good gets a good reward, and everything bad gets a bad reward in effect creates a screen saver.

 

That's why it's an argument against a loving god. A loving god is not a balanced god.

 

 



Distant Star said: 

Death is infinity, because infinity is death. Life is finite, and finite is life. There is no hell or heaven.

This is a unfounded statement. The metaphor also doesn't make sense.

 



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WessleWoggle said:
Kasz216 said:
WessleWoggle said:

Argument against theistic god of religions: No proof

Argument against a loving god that created everything: Suffering

Argument against the unknowable deist god: No proof

I don't know.  Without suffering there is no free will.

Without free will there is no reason to create people since they all just end up the same or as mindless puppets.

Creating a world where everything is equal and everything good gets a good reward, and everything bad gets a bad reward in effect creates a screen saver.

 

That's why it's an argument against a loving god. A loving god is not a balanced god.

 

I don't follow.  What's more loving then giving people a situation where they can grow into their own person?



It applies to our 4 dimensions. If you believe in more dimensions I could be wrong. If god is not in these dimensions he is in another dimension or just part of our 4 dimensions. We could do 2 things trying to open a new dimension. And look if god might be in the fifth dimension. Or explore space trying to survive after our sun will die. Since opening your mind is easy for some people that already know this all in one thing, what I call fifth dimension. There are people that believe in this 5th dimension all religious people believe in a soul/spirit that connects you to god.

Well it isn't working because there are non-believers and believers. Also as time moves on (4th dimension) only more and more diversity is created. Religion doesn't connect people, it disconnects people. We would be far better of by believing in god. Just that.

There are always 2 sides of a story, one is true. Sometimes both are true and false (on both sides true and false). Sometimes there are more than just 2 sides. When we unravel answers new questions come to mind.

There are many believers in this world, due to internet free information, more people become non-believers.

 



Kasz216 said:
WessleWoggle said:
Kasz216 said:
WessleWoggle said:

Argument against theistic god of religions: No proof

Argument against a loving god that created everything: Suffering

Argument against the unknowable deist god: No proof

I don't know.  Without suffering there is no free will.

Without free will there is no reason to create people since they all just end up the same or as mindless puppets.

Creating a world where everything is equal and everything good gets a good reward, and everything bad gets a bad reward in effect creates a screen saver.

 

That's why it's an argument against a loving god. A loving god is not a balanced god.

 

I don't follow.  What's more loving then giving people a situation where they can grow into their own person?

Okay, you don't follow. I'll draw it all out.

I said suffering was proof against a loving god. You said without suffering there is no free will. I'll argue that now even though I chose not to previously. First off what leads you to believe we have free will? Our will is influenced by our experiences, it's not free. With or without suffering, there's no such thing as free will.

As for my statement, I forget what I was thinking when I wrote that. The God of everything, from our human perception, seems to have made the world neither loving nor balanced. The world and universe are unfair, unbalanced. For there to be balance it has to be in another life, and the afterlife is unproven, so that's proof againt a loving god. Until we die a truly find out.

"What's more loving then giving people a situation where they can grow into their own person?"

Giving them a situation where they can all grow into gods of course. But who's to say us humans can't do that?



ManusJustus said:
Strategyking92 said:
I don't think you really grasp the concept of the christian god.
God said he created man in his image.. So god is human-like if you believe in the bible. However, he is also presented as an omniscient being, while having interest in a select few individuals. You could, however, make the argument that he needed to have interest in these individuals for people to have faith that he exists through religion spreading. As for god being cruel in the old testament, he was only testing humanity and punishing the wicked.
He continues to punish the wicked in the new testament, but not in his godly form.

And since christianity, judaism, and islam make almost all of the major world religions, I am confident with the "everything happens for a reason" belief over pure dumb luck.

Man's image came from billions of years of evolution.   And I dont think God (assuming he created the universe) would be made of matter or energy (since he created them) so its hard to think of him as actually having an image anyway.  Unless he created matter and energy them molded himself into some form of it, but why would he do that?

Why would God's personality change from Old to New Testament?  Wouldnt an all powerful and all knowing being not need to learn from experience?

 

 

Well it could vary I suppose. Who's to say the creation story didn't happen in some form? While i'm not so sure about that, the evolution theory, and the creation theory have possibilities in them that humans were made in gods image. Well, they don't refute them. I mean, what if humans gradually changed into gods image? But because god doesn't have a physical image, you might compare his form to a cloud. Up close it looks like nothing, but from far away it might look like a dragon or something. I just don't think anybody can possibly imagine the big picture of a god, or how one can exist.

I think his personality stayed the same, it's just that he did not need to test free will, or the events aren't mentioned in the NT, due to the focus being on jesus and his message of peace. Although you can still find references where gods will is enacted.

Here's another question also: Since god is omniscient, wouldn't he need to know his own limits (or in humans case, free will). And since he is omniscient, he both would and would not know. Why would he create humans in the first place? All I can come up with is that god has a sort of self awareness, and that since humans are created in his image, he learns while being omniscient. You know, like when a guy pokes a dead cow with a stick even though he knows the cow is dead. Pointless, really, but what is existance something happening?



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

Obligatory dick measuring Gaming Laptop Specs: Sager NP8270-GTX: 17.3" FULL HD (1920X1080) LED Matte LC, nVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M, Intel Core i7-4700MQ, 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3, 750GB SATA II 3GB/s 7,200 RPM Hard Drive

My argument for God - We're all here right? So something had to create us right, we didn't spawn out of nowhere like in a FPS game?

Okay so we can all agree we're here and we were created by something. I choose to believe that God created us. That's just my belief. You don't agree then fine. My job isn't to convert you I'm just saying what I feel.