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Forums - General - Is abortion a crime against humanity?

Onyxmeth said:
Rath said:
 

 

In the birthing canal?

As I stated earlier I'm opposed to abortion after around 22-26 weeks because its around then that several important parts of the brain start to develop, including the thalamus.

@bolded: A child was born at 21 weeks and it breathed on it's own after leaving the birth canal. It's the earliest recorded birth. Do you feel abortion laws should reflect that, or not going that far, is it morally wrong to abort at 21 weeks because potentially the child could survive at that point?

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11222-worlds-most-premature-baby-set-to-leave-hospital.html

 

 

 Thank you for the link. I got the data that abortion is legal from 23-24 weeks on wikipedia (not accurate I know). I'm writing a 20 page research paper on this topic and this link is actually very interesting. Thanks again.

 

Now continue to bicker but with sources :@

 

@Wesslewoggle Nanotechnology is not even close to becoming a reality yet, so until then unfortunately, abortion is still very gruesome like the pictures shown. Those are of course the more perverse ones, but even regular, smaller fetuses are still "humanlike" in the sense you can tell it will be a human, instead of lets say a dog. Or it looks like a humanoid alien.



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donathos said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

Well, I posted some pictures below, and I'm warning they are graphic. The reason for this is for some people here who are pro-choice and have not seen what an aborted baby looks like.

[Pointlessly disgusting pics deleted.]

This reminds me a lot of PETA's tactics:  appeals to gross-out and knee-jerk emotion instead of reason.  Reason's the better way to go... if reason is on your side, that is.

Explain how that's pointless? You do know most people who form thier opinion of "pro-choice" have never seen an aborted baby or the procedure. That was the purpose. It wasn't an emotional tactic and I find it highly reasonable to find it a tradgedy for this to be able to be done to a baby.

 



" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"

Nirvana_Nut85 said:
donathos said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

Well, I posted some pictures below, and I'm warning they are graphic. The reason for this is for some people here who are pro-choice and have not seen what an aborted baby looks like.

[Pointlessly disgusting pics deleted.]

This reminds me a lot of PETA's tactics:  appeals to gross-out and knee-jerk emotion instead of reason.  Reason's the better way to go... if reason is on your side, that is.

Explain how that's pointless? You do know most people who form thier opinion of "pro-choice" have never seen an aborted baby or the procedure. That was the purpose. It wasn't an emotional tactic and I find it highly unreasonable to find it a tradgedy for this to be able to be done to a baby.

 

Did you write that wrong?

 



WessleWoggle said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:
donathos said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

Well, I posted some pictures below, and I'm warning they are graphic. The reason for this is for some people here who are pro-choice and have not seen what an aborted baby looks like.

[Pointlessly disgusting pics deleted.]

This reminds me a lot of PETA's tactics:  appeals to gross-out and knee-jerk emotion instead of reason.  Reason's the better way to go... if reason is on your side, that is.

Explain how that's pointless? You do know most people who form thier opinion of "pro-choice" have never seen an aborted baby or the procedure. That was the purpose. It wasn't an emotional tactic and I find it highly unreasonable to find it a tradgedy for this to be able to be done to a baby.

 

Did you write that wrong?

 

Fuck! lmao, thanks for pointing it out *reasonable

 



" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"

Abortion sucks but it actually helps humanity as a whole.



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Onyxmeth said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Onyxmeth said:

Can anyone vouch for this statement being true from the OP?

"Legally, the United States have declared abortion legal up to 22 or 23 weeks into pregnancy."

 

 

The best answer I could find:

Generally, most states have a law that people can get an abortion on demand for the first 25-26 weeks of pregnancy (that's about 3-3 and 1/2 months). It is still possible to get an abortion after that, but only if a woman's doctor says it's necessary for health reasons (the baby is SO seriously malformed that it wouldn't live outside the womb at all, something like that). Then in the last couple months of pregnancy, an abortion is only legal if the mother's life is at stake.


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080202151306AAEELJm

 

That information is incorrect. 25-26 weeks does not equal 3-3 1/2 months. 25 weeks is over 5 1/2 months. Can abortions really legally happen in a voluntary manner at that time, because that's almost entering the third trimester. I'm pretty sure babies have been born sooner than that.

@Rath-What kind of life to you consider a fetus to have? Also a fetus is dependent on it's mother for the entire pregnancy, so why would that be a deciding factor?

 

22 Weeks is the earliest i believe.

 

 



Nirvana_Nut85 said:

Well, I posted some pictures below, and I'm warning they are graphic. The reason for this is for some people here who are pro-choice and have not seen what an aborted baby looks like.

The pictures are disturbing, but so is the fact that you couldn't present a sound argument against abortion, and felt the need to resort to pictures. If you truly believe in something then at least do your best. This is laziness and borderline offensive. Pro-choice is not pro-abortion. I am pro-choice and I can't stand abortion. Sometimes though it's not always feasible for the world to revolve around our personal moral standards. We must bend to give others the rights they deserve, while still not agreeing with the choices they make.

To further my point, I find suicide repugnant but it's your individual choice to do it. Now I can be shown a picture of a man with no face after shooting himself with a sawed off shotgun and be horrified by it, but that isn't going to change my opinion that he has the right to be that stupid.

@Bursche-No problem. I found the link very interesting myself.

 



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WessleWoggle said:
@Nirvana_Nut85

Those pictures are gross. That's why we need to make nanobots that can instantly vaporize the fetus so it feels no pain during removal. :)

 

A fetus very likely can't feel pain until after 26 weeks anyway, there are some vital parts of the brain missing until then.



WessleWoggle said:
Abortion sucks but it actually helps humanity as a whole.

 

 So does Eugenics, the greater good and survival of man's greatest instead of inferiors. But that doesn't mean it is morally justified. There are a lot of things that helps humanity, and yet we don't do them because it isn't right.

 

The way I look at it, even if the child that wasn't aborted grows up to have a criminal life, at least it has the life and choices to live instead of not having that chance whatsoever.



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Thatmax said:
wfz said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Tyrannical said:
If abortion is fine, why not infanticide? Whats a few more months?

“I think, therefore I am”

That's a very powerful sentience. When you think about it long enough, it makes you question life. I exist, only because I know I exist. The only thing that makes me human, is thought. Without it, I would be a collection of cells.

A fetus before brain function is a collection of cells. Thus, I feel it can be treated differently.

I will reverse the question, and see how pro-life people answer:

If a person is being held on life support, and no longer has brain functions, is pulling the plug murder?

 

 

You realize that your analogy is a bit off, right? The old person has nothing to look forward to and their life is at an end, while a fetus has great potential and an entire life in front of it.

 

Who said anything about an old person?? there is nothing stopping a child from getting into this situation.

I agree with Mafoo on this one.

Alright, take out "old" in my post and replace whatever word you think suits the description. I still think it stands. The person in the "vegetative state" or has no brain functions has nothing to look forward to and has no potential, right? Is there a way to somehow revive someone from that?