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Forums - Sony - Sony: Our first-party dev is as big as Microsoft and Nintendo's combined

Squilliam said:
wholikeswood said:
Squilliam said:
Since this is coming from the horses mouth I'll assume it is true.

1. Are these studios a drain or are they profiting. I'll assume the former unless corrected with strong evidence because if they have that many employees its got to be a massive drain on their resources if every single HD publisher is losing money pretty much even with some impressive blockbuster releases I have to assume that Sony is as well at this point.

2. Is their pursuit of development excellence causing them to hire huge quantities of staff at the expense of profits. Guerilla games had in excess of 200 staff at points in Killzone 2 development and I heard that Santa Monica had two animators for every programmer and thats a lot of staff and expensive MOCAP.

1. As I recall MakingMusic setting out a while ago, SCEWWS is the most profitable part of Sony's gaming division. Think it's only San Diego that historically hasn't set the charts alight (that said, MLB 09 The Show is sitting pretty at 90 on Metacritic).

2. Please don't do a starcraft. You're coming ambiguously close to suggesting that GG was super-staffed during KZ2 development. As MakingMusic (wow, he's been useful!) has explained countless times, the vast majority of development was done by the original, moderately-staffed group before rising for the last stretch.

Edit: MakingMusic, get yo' ass in here and explain this better.

1. Their break even point = Microsoft + Nintendo for their 1st party developments alone. Remember they have canceled several announced games and im betting many unannounced games as well. Their software output doesn't seem to justify their current development base.

2. I was merely implying that they are pushing production values far into the territory of diminishing returns.

 

Maybe, maybe not.  Do we know for sure?  What I do know is that SONY is pumping them out so that's good for the gamer.

 



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well that nice to hear for us gamers. more developers means most likely more games at a quicker pace.

but for shareholders i would be thinking the opposite. i would be thinking how come nintendo is selling insanely more software than you guys when you have so many developers.



Jordahn said:
superchunk said:
CGI-Quality said:
superchunk said:
I don't want to read 4 pages of stuff, so my comment is this.

If Sony's 1st and 2nd party base is so much bigger, by be extension better, than MS and Nintendo combined, then why is it Nintendo is the only company that can carry their entire company solely of their software?

Why is it Nintendo made more profits from gaming than MS and/or Sony for every single year any of them has ever made video games?

Why is it Nintendo, who makes games on at most 2 platforms, is only 2nd to EA in publishing when EA makes games on every single possible platform there is to be found?

Why is it Nintendo never has to wonder if their game will be a million seller? Its usually will their game break 3m. 1m is almost a certainty.

More does not equate to better. PS1 and PS2 did not become the best selling home consoles of their times (and all time) because Sony makes great games. They sold so well because Sony worked very well with 3rd parties and retained a TON of great exclusives.

On the other hand, Wii is a massive success and will easily claim the crown from PS2 almost solely on Nintendo's software as most 3rd parties have only just begun to actually put forth solid efforts.

There is no better software maker than Nintendo. Its multiple decades of massive hits and record breaking titles prove this beyond a doubt.

Too bad with this post it's clear you missed the entire point of the article. No where in the article did Sony say more = better.

 

But that is the point. Sony wouldn't mention that they have so many more dev teams than their competitors if they were not trying to imply that they were overall a better dev house. My post demonstrates that while they may have more in quantity they are far inferior in quality to specifically Nintendo.

 

There was NOTHING that you said that "proved" that SONY "are far inferior in quality to specifically Nintendo."

Edit: Did anything I said when I first responded to you (in red text) proved untrue?

I didn't 'proved' anything. I 'demonstrated'. Big difference. If you disagree with that, so be it. But, I didn't state it was fact or proved.

 

 



And this is the one and only reason why I own a Sony console.



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Jordahn said:

superchunk said:
I don't want to read 4 pages of stuff, so my comment is this.

If Sony's 1st and 2nd party base is so much bigger, by be extension better, than MS and Nintendo combined, then why is it Nintendo is the only company that can carry their entire company solely of their software?

1. Who's to say that both SONY and Microsoft cannot do this?  If the PSOne and PSTwo had switched position with the N64 and GC respectfully, could SONY be as successful?  Hard to say, and we'll never know.  But the PS3 is in third this gen, and it's 1st/2nd offering have been for the most part good to SONY and the PS3.

Why is it Nintendo made more profits from gaming than MS and/or Sony for every single year any of them has ever made video games?

2. I would suspect from the reports of 3rd parties, developing for the "HD" consoles are more expensive.  So I can see it applied to SONY and Microsoft as well.

Why is it Nintendo, who makes games on at most 2 platforms, is only 2nd to EA in publishing when EA makes games on every single possible platform there is to be found?

3. Just narrowing this to just "publishing" will not paint a more accurate big picture scenario.

Why is it Nintendo never has to wonder if their game will be a million seller? Its usually will their game break 3m. 1m is almost a certainty.

4. Most of the time, larger userbase help larger software sales.

More does not equate to better. PS1 and PS2 did not become the best selling home consoles of their times (and all time) because Sony makes great games. They sold so well because Sony worked very well with 3rd parties and retained a TON of great exclusives.

5. No one legit ever said that more always meant quality.

On the other hand, Wii is a massive success and will easily claim the crown from PS2 almost solely on Nintendo's software as most 3rd parties have only just begun to actually put forth solid efforts.

There is no better software maker than Nintendo. Its multiple decades of massive hits and record breaking titles prove this beyond a doubt.

6. Nintendo is an awesome software maker.  Nuff said.

 

 

I added numbers to your comments.

1. Sony and MS would not be profitable or successful without a lot of 3rd party support. This I believe is proven in both PS3 and Xbox respectively. Whereas Nintendo made money on N64 as well as GC without any real support and Wii, which has arguably far less than PS360, is also a far more stable platform.

2. I don't know what the dev costs for HD consoles has to do with my question. I was referring to primarily the last gen as well as before that in the case of Sony. This gen its obvious, but last gen all three consoles were similarly spec'd but, Nintendo made far more profit in gaming than either Sony or MS.

3. I didn't narrow it to anything. The point of developing software is to publish it and all three companies have 1st/2nd party devs because they publish software. Thus, being that Nintendo is 2nd only a company that publishes on every platform imaginable is really saying something about the number of titles Nintendo puts out and how many of those they sell. Which really is the whole point to making them in the first place, right?

4. ok, true, however, I again was not solely concerning myself to the Wii. Even with previous gens, Nintendo's games generally sell very, very well.

5. As I said in another reply, the whole point of making that comment by Sony is to prove that they are better.

6. Fully agree.



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i have somewhere 20-30 posts in the first pages of this thread.



If people cant see the quallity games coming or came from the 1rst party sony studios then i cant continue this.

Sony actually producing new games (ex. MAG), being third but actually trying to produce many games on 3 platforms. What nintendo is doing? I dont see them trying very hard. I believe they are happy with having those 3 games selling 100billion copies each....anyway opinions are opinions

wait for the next mario/zelda. I'll too get them when those games come, but i am not waiting for them. I enjoy what sony offers. I am a gamer, i play with games. I cant play with the sales. It seems to me that some here can, enjoy those sales then. Have fun

Nuff said about the subject.



That's nice Sony but still funny you can't churn out as many as some other developers if it is that large. Quality over quantity indeed is the idea but it doesn't take hundreds of people to make a good game. Look at 2d Boy and World of Goo. Numbers mean nothing as output means everything. Let's work on that efficiency eh Sony.



CGI-Quality said:
Jordahn said:

Maybe, maybe not.  Do we know for sure?  What I do know is that SONY is pumping them out so that's good for the gamer.

 

Why are people not grasping this fact.

 

I don't think that fact is under much scrutiny.

I do believe that Sony spends the most on average per block-buster release than any other publisher which isn't exactly bad for gamers in any way shape or form, however it most likely slows their rate of releases down when you compare total workforce to games produced.

I do wonder with several of their games which I played that their high production values due to the seemingly no expense spared policy they seem to have, mean that the overall gameplay elements haven't quite been nailed down like some other comparable third party titles due to the massive production sizes and unwieldy development. Its something which experience over time is improving but its just an observation which I made about their games.

 



Tease.

superchunk said:
Jordahn said:
superchunk said:
CGI-Quality said:
superchunk said:
I don't want to read 4 pages of stuff, so my comment is this.

If Sony's 1st and 2nd party base is so much bigger, by be extension better, than MS and Nintendo combined, then why is it Nintendo is the only company that can carry their entire company solely of their software?

Why is it Nintendo made more profits from gaming than MS and/or Sony for every single year any of them has ever made video games?

Why is it Nintendo, who makes games on at most 2 platforms, is only 2nd to EA in publishing when EA makes games on every single possible platform there is to be found?

Why is it Nintendo never has to wonder if their game will be a million seller? Its usually will their game break 3m. 1m is almost a certainty.

More does not equate to better. PS1 and PS2 did not become the best selling home consoles of their times (and all time) because Sony makes great games. They sold so well because Sony worked very well with 3rd parties and retained a TON of great exclusives.

On the other hand, Wii is a massive success and will easily claim the crown from PS2 almost solely on Nintendo's software as most 3rd parties have only just begun to actually put forth solid efforts.

There is no better software maker than Nintendo. Its multiple decades of massive hits and record breaking titles prove this beyond a doubt.

Too bad with this post it's clear you missed the entire point of the article. No where in the article did Sony say more = better.

 

But that is the point. Sony wouldn't mention that they have so many more dev teams than their competitors if they were not trying to imply that they were overall a better dev house. My post demonstrates that while they may have more in quantity they are far inferior in quality to specifically Nintendo.

 

There was NOTHING that you said that "proved" that SONY "are far inferior in quality to specifically Nintendo."

Edit: Did anything I said when I first responded to you (in red text) proved untrue?

I didn't 'proved' anything. I 'demonstrated'. Big difference. If you disagree with that, so be it. But, I didn't state it was fact or proved.

 

 

There was NOTHING that you said that "demonstated" that SONY "are far inferior in quality to specifically Nintendo."

 



Hackers are poor nerds who don't wash.

irstupid said:
well that nice to hear for us gamers. more developers means most likely more games at a quicker pace.

but for shareholders i would be thinking the opposite. i would be thinking how come nintendo is selling insanely more software than you guys when you have so many developers.

 

But OT we are referring to the size of SONY's development studios.  So if you have it, you use it.  Otherwise, not using what you have is not good for the shareholders.



Hackers are poor nerds who don't wash.