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Forums - General - I'm watching Al Gores 'An inconvenient truth'

Kasz216 on 05 April 2009
Final-Fan said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Final-Fan said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Final-Fan said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Final-Fan said:
I don't doubt that he's investing in efforts to encourage the sort of behavior he believes will benefit the environment. Since he's been in on the ground floor of some of that stuff, it's not surprising that he has interests there. What I question is the amounts of money you propose he stands to make. Where exactly is he going to get DOZENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in personal profit? That is what I want you to substantiate and you have not.
He also could stand to make a fortune off of Carbon Trading itself. He is a major stake holder in a company that trades Carbon Credits, and also determines how many you would need to buy. (nice combo racket to be in).

If the federal government made every company who exported gas (that's just about every company), pay his company (or one of a dozen like his), to tell them how many carbon credits they needed to buy, and then made them buy the credits from Gore's company, he could be the next Bill Gates.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/06/04/gore-invests-carbon-credit-company-will-media-care
That's where it all falls apart. Why are you assuming Gore would attempt, let alone succeed, to establish a government imposed monopoly? It's not like it's Halliburton or anything ZING!

Also, please explain how it is that "just about every company exports gas".
Please don't make fun of the company that Clinton first gave a no bid contract too ZING!

Companies that would need to buy Carbon Offset:
--Anyone that transports products with gas powered cars/trains/plains.
--Any company that uses Electricity that is not created with green technology (everyone)

So if your company owns a car, ships anything, or uses electricity, you are deemed to have a carbon footprint. Name a company that doesn't do one of those things? (this does not include all the other things that count).
Aside from the fact that some companies exist that only use "green electricity", I only questioned your statement about "exporting gas" (by which you apparently meant "has a carbon footprint").

Also, you didn't respond to the more important part of that post.
He will not create a Monopoly, but just about every company will need to buy a carbon credit if legislation is passed. Al Gore will be in prime position to make a huge profit if that law passed.

I see.  In the future, could you please not make allegations you know are false?

Gores company likely would be a favorite though.  Problem being also there is no carbon credit legilstion out there... basically that money you donate to carbon credits could be going to the CEOs SUV for all you know.

 



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Final-Fan on 05 April 2009
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
donathos said:
Final-Fan said:
The idea that global cooling was a major concern is just bogus, I can't believe how widespread that misinformation is.

You know... I just don't know.  I wasn't really aware for my small time in the 1970s.

I saw the Wikipedia link you mentioned in another thread and, given the nature of Wikipedia, and how fickle people tend to be, it gets me to wonder.  (And also, the article on global cooling certainly seems to me to be written from a particular... perspective.)

Was global cooling a major concern in the way that global warming is today?  Probably not, though I suspect that at least some of global warming's traction has to do with the advent of the Internet and the rise of a very powerful environmentalist movement.

It's probably useless to speculate what the Wikipedia article on global cooling would have been like in the mid 1970s, or what a Wikipedia article on global warming would look like forty-plus years from now, should global warming be "disproven" tomorrow.

But were global warming disproved, I suspect that there would be many people who would seek to wash their hands of their involvement in the controversy, and look to downplay it as much as possible.

This is not to take anything away from any current theory regarding global warming; I'm not studied enough to be able to really say.  But I can certainly believe a claim that current concerns echo concerns over diametrically opposed scenarios just a few decades back--it's not climatology that people love, it's doomsday.

I know that Wikipedia isn't always unbiased, and one must be particularly careful when consulting it on this issue. 
But this: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Cooling#Concern_in_the_mid-twentieth_century
seems to make a very strong case that the "global cooling" idea was mere speculation among scientists -- something to be studied as a possibility -- although it found added life as a minor scare in media articles. 
Whereas this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change
seems to me to make it faily clear that a (certainly not infallible) consensus has emerged in favor of the idea that global warming exists and is at least partially due to human activity. 
"With the release of the revised statement by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists in 2007, no remaining scientific body of national or international standing is known to reject the basic findings of human influence on recent climate change."

Although individual scientists do continue to assert that every respected national or international scientific organization with an opinion on the matter is wrong -- and it is possible that they are in fact justified in their doubts -- I don't see that there is any doubt that the "global cooling" idea was nowhere NEAR as widely believed by the scientific community.
Global Warming is actually one of the least credible sources on Wikipedia.

There is a story out there about a scientist who "used to disagree" with global warming but now agrees it exists.  Except the sceintist still doesn't agree it exists.  It's just that Pro-global warming people constantly edit it and there was no way to change it back to the correct information.

Pro global warming people troll everything on wikipedia to change it to fit their agenda. 

That's terrible.  Is the key, italicized assertion false?



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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Kasz216 on 05 April 2009
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
donathos said:
Final-Fan said:
The idea that global cooling was a major concern is just bogus, I can't believe how widespread that misinformation is.

You know... I just don't know.  I wasn't really aware for my small time in the 1970s.

I saw the Wikipedia link you mentioned in another thread and, given the nature of Wikipedia, and how fickle people tend to be, it gets me to wonder.  (And also, the article on global cooling certainly seems to me to be written from a particular... perspective.)

Was global cooling a major concern in the way that global warming is today?  Probably not, though I suspect that at least some of global warming's traction has to do with the advent of the Internet and the rise of a very powerful environmentalist movement.

It's probably useless to speculate what the Wikipedia article on global cooling would have been like in the mid 1970s, or what a Wikipedia article on global warming would look like forty-plus years from now, should global warming be "disproven" tomorrow.

But were global warming disproved, I suspect that there would be many people who would seek to wash their hands of their involvement in the controversy, and look to downplay it as much as possible.

This is not to take anything away from any current theory regarding global warming; I'm not studied enough to be able to really say.  But I can certainly believe a claim that current concerns echo concerns over diametrically opposed scenarios just a few decades back--it's not climatology that people love, it's doomsday.

I know that Wikipedia isn't always unbiased, and one must be particularly careful when consulting it on this issue. 
But this: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Cooling#Concern_in_the_mid-twentieth_century
seems to make a very strong case that the "global cooling" idea was mere speculation among scientists -- something to be studied as a possibility -- although it found added life as a minor scare in media articles. 
Whereas this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change
seems to me to make it faily clear that a (certainly not infallible) consensus has emerged in favor of the idea that global warming exists and is at least partially due to human activity. 
"With the release of the revised statement by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists in 2007, no remaining scientific body of national or international standing is known to reject the basic findings of human influence on recent climate change."

Although individual scientists do continue to assert that every respected national or international scientific organization with an opinion on the matter is wrong -- and it is possible that they are in fact justified in their doubts -- I don't see that there is any doubt that the "global cooling" idea was nowhere NEAR as widely believed by the scientific community.
Global Warming is actually one of the least credible sources on Wikipedia.

There is a story out there about a scientist who "used to disagree" with global warming but now agrees it exists.  Except the sceintist still doesn't agree it exists.  It's just that Pro-global warming people constantly edit it and there was no way to change it back to the correct information.

Pro global warming people troll everything on wikipedia to change it to fit their agenda. 

That's terrible.  Is the key, italicized assertion false?

the "used to disagree"?  Yeah.  There's an article out there it's pretty funny because a guy who knows him tried to get it changed back... the guy even called the scientist confirmed he still thought that well "Man Made" global warming was false...

yet the Scientist himself couldn't convince Wikipedia to change an entry on what he believes.  Someone posted it on here before... i think it was from the washington times.

Here's another article

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/07/09/wikipedia-promoting-global-warming-hysteria

 



Kasz216 on 05 April 2009

Ah... here is the original article on it i believe

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/08/opinion/main4241293.shtml

When it comes to global warming debates the only sane thing to do is look at the research papers directly and break down their methods and where the flaws are or aren't.

Way too much money to be made... espiecally on the Pro-Global Warming side believe it or not.



highwaystar101 on 05 April 2009

Oh noes Kasz broke the thread



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Kasz216 on 05 April 2009
highwaystar101 said:
Oh noes Kasz broke the thread

 

I looks normal to me....



highwaystar101 on 05 April 2009

^Try and read the post at the top of the page lol



Final-Fan on 05 April 2009

Um, no. "Italicized":
"With the release of the revised statement by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists in 2007, no remaining scientific body of national or international standing is known to reject the basic findings of human influence on recent climate change."

I was just taking your word for that story you mentioned. By the way, it's pretty hilarious that those guys would be denouncing other people's propaganda.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 05 April 2009
highwaystar101 said:
^Try and read the post at the top of the page lol

I can read it fine.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

highwaystar101 on 05 April 2009

maybe it's my browser, i am on a netbook so my screensize is 8.9" so the text is falling off the sides of the screen.