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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo criticised by Greenpeace

hsrob said:
The reason this report doesn't hold much water for me, is not because it disrespected Nintendo (who is my father, not my mother, silly :P) but the manner in which it goes about reporting, which is to sensationalise.

Half the news articles on the internet about this topic state that "Nintendo is bad for the environment" and Greenpeace does nothing to correct this. The reality is that this is a failing on behalf of Nintendo's PR department and not necessarily their green standards. In essence, it's not that Nintendo is actually doing anything bad but that it doesn't measure up to Greenpeace's standards of disclosure.

Now i agree that Nintendo could easily pick up it's game in this regard, but in the end what is more important, that a company is actually green or that it's seen to be green? That is why i'd argue it more important for them to look at the products rather than green propaganda produced by the various PR departments.

Greenpeace made the report and published it on their website. There's no more emphasis on Nintendo's case than on the other couple of dozens or so electronic producers in there. What were the criteria and what was the goal of the report is stated in the report opening and on their website.

If game sites want to take that public document and underline the Nintendo case, that's not Greenpeace responsibility. As long as they don't say anything factually wrong about the methodology or the data, it is actually none of Greenpeace's business what light the websites want to cast on the Nintendo case.

I do agree that in the end what counts is if a company is actually green. But everything starts by defining the processes that lead to the design of products and production lines, and with the indipendent verification of estabilished criteria.

As a customer, I want to know how much they are committing to reducing environmental damage. Knowing that they abide the laws of the countries where the pieces are fabricated (that could be going on in a pretty lawless province of China) is not enough. Obviously hearing "we're green because we say so" or "we're green because everybody knows we're green" is not enough.

Offering analysis on the products by a third party, and offering indipendent verification of the productive chain would be a good step. More than what the law asks them to do, but useful for me to trust them. Of course then these must not be empty promises: I expect the companies to keep their part of the deal.

That's also why in the Greenpeace report extra points are deducted from Dell and HP (I seem to remember) because they actually did not mantain their promises, and those two are the only cases that are underlined.

In the end it's PR, but the good kind of PR.

 



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

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BoleroOfFire said:

^^I can't speak for Greenpeace because I don't know much about their anti-whaling practices, but the Sea Shepherd practices do not involve killing people.  

Assuming they are hurting people, what would you do to poachers then?  Allow them to continue what they're doing because their lives are more valuable?  They're hunting illegally.  

Leave them to the authorties to prosecute their laws how they see fit.

Viglantism is oftentimes more dangerous then the crimes they try to stop.  This being one such case.

 

 

 



Kasz216 said:
BoleroOfFire said:

^^I can't speak for Greenpeace because I don't know much about their anti-whaling practices, but the Sea Shepherd practices do not involve killing people.  

Assuming they are hurting people, what would you do to poachers then?  Allow them to continue what they're doing because their lives are more valuable?  They're hunting illegally.  

Leave them to the authorties to prosecute their laws how they see fit.

 

 

Fair enough.

I personally believe the authorities can't handle it.  Too many get away with it so I'm glad there are organizations out there trying to intervene.  



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BoleroOfFire said:
Kasz216 said:
BoleroOfFire said:

^^I can't speak for Greenpeace because I don't know much about their anti-whaling practices, but the Sea Shepherd practices do not involve killing people.  

Assuming they are hurting people, what would you do to poachers then?  Allow them to continue what they're doing because their lives are more valuable?  They're hunting illegally.  

Leave them to the authorties to prosecute their laws how they see fit.

 

 

Fair enough.

I personally believe the authorities can't handle it.  Too many get away with it so I'm glad there are organizations out there trying to intervene.  

So you're of the opinion that ramming one boat into another and putting tons of lives at risk is less of a crime then whale poaching?

Or is it that your for more illegal activities if they "scare" other people from doing illegal things.



Kasz216 said:

What would you call ramming a boat into another boat? 

Aslo... yeah it's a concept.  Human life is inherently more valuable then whale life.  Therefore risking a persons life to save a whales life is wrong.

 

Oh, I see... it's that simple. It's incredible how a small mathematical symbol ">" can enclose so many possible cases and nuances.

What about the life of a person vs the life of 10 whales? What about 10K whales? What about the life of a person vs the extinction of a whole race of whales?

What about putting at risk the life of a crew of, say, 15 people with a chance of harming them of 1 in 100000 vs the life of 10 whales, of a race that has been already reduced to critical genetic diversity?

Stop me when you can convert that ">" in certain answers to these questions. Then we'll have a real concept. Until then, it means nothing.

 



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

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Kasz216 said:
WereKitten said:
Kasz216 said:

They are trying to save whales by attempting to kill people. 

People > Whales.

 

Oh, please. "Attempting to kill people"? Can I see a case of Greenpeace activists being charged with voluntary attempted murder in a court because of their anti-whaling boat manouvers?

And "People > Whales"? Is that even a concept?

 

What would you call ramming a boat into another boat? 

Aslo... yeah it's a concept.  Human life is inherently more valuable then whale life.  Therefore risking a persons life to save a whales life is wrong.

 

Hmm.  Debatable.  Is risking a murderer's life, to save a victim okay?  Answer must be "no", in your book, eh?  Put all dem cops in jail.  They do it every day.

It's also debatable whether or not whales are sentient, btw.  Next you'll be telling us how Human genome X is more important than Human genome Y, and thus, Y's genocide should be okay.

Sorry to be so blunt, but... while its true that the Greenpeace folks should be allowing the authorities to... well shoot these guys (that's what they do in lots of places, to poachers), I think your fresh stand of "murderous, lawbreaking humans > peaceful whales" is on pretty shaky ground.  You should probably stay away from that.  The poacher police are gonna have their eye on you. ;)

Frankly, I don't recall any intentional ramming policies by Greenpeace activists, anyhow.



 

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Kasz216 said:
WereKitten said:
Kasz216 said:
 

 

 

 Human life is inherently more valuable then whale life.   

Are you religious?  If you are, im not going to argue with you.

But if you're not, then please tell me why humans are more valuable  There is no fundamental aspect that all humans possess that makes us more important than other animals. 

You cant argue that we have social connections, or language, or complex thoughts, because there are always people that dont have these things.  It sounds cruel, but a whale for example, has more complex thoughts and social connections than many mentally handicapped people.   So what exactly is it about humans that makes them more valuable as individuals? 

 

 



Kasz216 said:
BoleroOfFire said:
Kasz216 said:
BoleroOfFire said:

^^I can't speak for Greenpeace because I don't know much about their anti-whaling practices, but the Sea Shepherd practices do not involve killing people.  

Assuming they are hurting people, what would you do to poachers then?  Allow them to continue what they're doing because their lives are more valuable?  They're hunting illegally.  

Leave them to the authorties to prosecute their laws how they see fit.

Fair enough.

I personally believe the authorities can't handle it.  Too many get away with it so I'm glad there are organizations out there trying to intervene.  

So you're of the opinion that ramming one boat into another and putting tons of lives at risk is less of a crime then whale poaching?

Or is it that your for more illegal activities if they "scare" other people from doing illegal things.

1. Greenpeace doesn't interfere with whaling by ramming their boat into the whaling ships.  This doesn't even make sense.  Why would they do that?  They'd put their whole crew at risk.  If it did happen before, it must have been an accident.  

2. There are not tons of lives involved.  Not that many people are on a whaling ship.  This doesn't mean killing people is okay as long as it's just a few.  I just wanted to point that out.

3. Unnecessary whale slaughtering can drive already declining species to extinction.  (This depends on the species of course).

 

 



Proud member of the Mega Mario Movement

 

Warrior of Light

Kasz216 said:
WereKitten said:
Kasz216 said:

They are trying to save whales by attempting to kill people. 

People > Whales.

 

Oh, please. "Attempting to kill people"? Can I see a case of Greenpeace activists being charged with voluntary attempted murder in a court because of their anti-whaling boat manouvers?

And "People > Whales"? Is that even a concept?

 

What would you call ramming a boat into another boat? 

Aslo... yeah it's a concept.  Human life is inherently more valuable then whale life.  Therefore risking a persons life to save a whales life is wrong.

 

No. Especially if they are hunting whales.

 



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