ckmlb said:
I discount it as my candidate for game of the year, yes. I don't discount it as a great game. Bottom line is it is much more likely that I will be blown away by something brand new to me than something I've seen before, even if it's great. To be game of the year it has to be beyond good, it has to really impress me and stick with me as an experience. I've been waiting for a proper Mario 64 sequel for more than a decade so don't assume that I am somehow not excited about Mario. It's the reason I bought a Wii, simple as that. I didn't buy it for Metroid Prime or Smash Bros., but Mario first and foremost. As of right now, it's at the top of my most anticipated games list for the year since GTA IV got delayed. You said that if I am not looking for fun then what am I doing gaming? I said I am not looking for fun alone. It's pretty easy to unerstand. You went from saying I claim not to look for fun to claiming that I am only looking for fun. I am telling you I am looking for fun among other things. Sometimes I'm also looking for a challenge, sometimes for puzzle solving/thinking, sometimes for a good story, sometimes for good emotional content, sometimes for an adrenaline rush, sometimes I'm looking to be creeped out or disturbed... Basically depending on the game I am looking for different things, but overall I'm looking for a great experience. I'm not judging games solely based on how fun they are. If a game is extremely depressing and really disturbed me then I would be interested in that too, I am looking for as many different types of reactions as possible when I play a game and I wish games had more variety. When you go to watch a movie or read a book are you only looking for fun? I'm not. Same with a game. I think Crysis looks pretty good, both in graphics and some of the stuff you can do in the game. It's not at the top of the list for me but it's there as far as games I have my eye on are concerned. Bottom line is I don't want video games to always be like boardgames just a fun passtime, I want more out of them. If I had two great games, I am naturally inclined to be more interested in the more origina and/or different one than the one that seems more familiar. This doesn't mean that every game that is different is automatically better than a sequel, it just means I like originality and I prefer a great new game than a great sequel even if it is a sequel to one of my favorite games ever, generally speaking. |
First of all, let me say, great post 
. You hit exactly what I was getting at, a very good description of what your perspective is. The reason I was trying to get at that is because it tells people a lot about your choices. I don't mean in a way that invalidates them, but rather in a way that puts them into context and allows us to understand your view far more clearly. So on that note, its a fantastic post.
Just a quick blurb on the "discounting" topic. I think what tripped us up was that I don't think you dislike SMG, but rather I am somewhat confused by your not even considereding it for GoTY. I understand that you are more likely to be impressed by something new, but I guess I am lacking understanding of why that would preclude a game that you have yet to try and by your own admission believe to look great from being in the running for GoTY.
Just to be clear if you absolutely hated SMG, I would understand that as a reason its not on your GoTY list. Because I can see how "I hate SMG" equates to "Its not on the list". I think with your approach though I am trying to understand the logic that brings you from A to B and I am not following you at at least one key step.
On the fun issue, perhaps fun is not the correct word but rather enjoyment? I don't want to play "syntax games" or "gotcha games", but I think the easiest way to explain what I am getting at is that enjoyment in some form is the root of gaming, and needs to be present whether you are learning to fly, playing a horror game, etc...And it sounds to me like enjoyment is definetely your top priority from what you have said, please correct me if I am wrong (but I think with the revised wording we are on the same page now). The idea at its most basic is that anything you do in a game should bring some form of enjoyment, whether it be scary, dramatic, funny, etc...
So if I extend that philosophy a bit farther we get to the point I was trying to make, which is that the criteria for GoTY does in fact add up to what is the best game. However I think we can extend that to what makes the best game? And with so many ways to make a game (as you have pointed out), it would seem the only way to measure them fairly across genres is the impact of how enjoyable the game was. Whether your enjoyment comes from slaughtering zombies, jumping on platforms in bazaar worlds, or killing genetic freaks under the ocean enjoyment is the common denominator that all games strive to create. Or another way of putting it is the after effect...when you step back from the game and you think "That was awesome!" or "That was fun!" etc....the games that elicit those reactions are better than the game you stand up from and don't think about for 2 or three days. Hopefully that should explain where I was going with that line of thinking, if you agree or disagree is obviously not of the greatest importance since this is your list to make, however I wanted to articulate my point to you.
On your last paragraph, I can see where you are going with this and I agree to a large extent. But at the risk of rehashing the debate I personally don't see how SMG has failed to break away and be something original. I see the mechanics and the dynamics of the game as basically an entirely new game that they happened to use a Mario Themed art style. But rather than let this devolve into a point for point discussion on SMG I will ask if you think that a sequel can be different enough to warrant new consideration? In some ways I think you have answered this already with the God of War 2 remark but I ask to be sure.
PS - So you know the source of this inquiry into the minutia was spurred on by a 3 hour wait between classes due to a last minute cancellation by an instructor 
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@Stof,
Not exactly trying to get puffed up, I think I was getting frustrated because I didn't understand where he was coming from. In any case his last post answered a great deal of the questions I was asking.
