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Forums - General - Question about what Obama just said.

mrstickball on 25 March 2009

We don't have naturally-inalienable rights. Simply because in America, we try, through legislation and personal action, to give each person the chance at life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. In Zimbabwe, it may be a little bit different take on what they feel are human rights.

Rights aren't natural, they are earned, then given as the society feels that they should be given. In America, we fought against the Brits over what we felt were rights. In the Civil War, we did it again based on another set of rights. We've progressed with what we feel rights are. However, we now are to the point that we must question where rights end - at society, or at the government.

And I tend to subscribe to MrMafoo's great Gerald Ford quotation about the intrinsic nature of government being able to give, and take away, based on what power they are given.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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mesoteto on 25 March 2009
Final-Fan said:
If a right can be taken away, how is it "inalienable"?

 

i left that word out for a reason, a right can be taken away

but it is wrong o do so, does that stop it from happening...no



 

Kasz216 on 25 March 2009

It might be that he thinks that better healtcare will drop the price of expensive emergency room treatements of people who can't pay.



Kasz216 on 25 March 2009
jv103 said:
mrstickball said:
jv103 said:
mrstickball said:

Try going to college for 8 years, then working 16hrs a day on double shifts, then watching someone that does no work get paid close to what you do. You'll start to see things differently.

For an entire year, I woke up at 4am every weekday, worked 60hrs a week, and made $8.00hr + overtime. No benefits. It's called unskilled labor. You see, in an economy, some people do things that are more valuable than others. They have the ability to do, say, and understand things better than others. Because of this, they may be entitled to earn compensation that exeedes those that work the same number of hours, but did not put any time into education, to do a good job.

 

Italicized part: Really? Stock Brokers do something more valuable than, dentists, doctors, farmers or even contractors/builders?

Bold: This type of rationalization typically comes when we try to explain inequity and chance. In reality differences are probably marginal, and most of what we deem success is not on individual ability but rather fortune/chance. Of course if you believe that their is some sort of supreme order or logic to the world, then of course that would entail chaos and would be very frightening.

 

Stock brokers help allocate investor funding in projects that can be critical for the development of a nation. Dentists, builders, doctors and farmers may rely on investments to start up their practices, as they've most likely spent their money on education, or equipment for their field. You may not agree that stock brokers need paid real well (and I can agree with you that they're overpaid), but their market dictates that they can earn a lot.

So you think that Brett Farve being a better QB than Ryan Leaf was entirely up to fortune? Chance allows Pele to be a better football player than Kyle Patterson? Yes, fortune and chance may be in the case of some, but it's certainly not in the majority. If chance and fortune dictated life, then every nation in the world would be equal in development.

On an individual level it's easy to say that x person has greater abilties than y person. My point was that on a larger scale, yes chance plays a larger role than ability. Brett Favre may be one of the greatest quarterbacks, out of people who tried out to play quarterback, who had the urge, or the encouragement to play quarterback, who happened to get accepted to a division one school which aided him in his transition into the nfl. Yes, he has the ability to play quarterback, but I think there are hundreds of people out their who could do the same, or even better.

Bold - How exactly? Wouldn't that be a case that shows chance really dictates life? Like the chance that some chauffer would do a three-point turn instead of driving straight ahead, giving a serbian nationalist the oppurtunity to shoot franz ferdinand.

 

Brett Farve got accepted to a Division 1 school because he was a great quarterback.

Hell they're targetting gradeschoolers for college sports.

College sports is bigger money then the pros... and you don't have to pay the atheletes jack.  In fact it's a rule that you can't.

College sports are practically slave labor.



elprincipe on 25 March 2009
SciFiBoy said:

humans are imperfect, do thoose imperfections make them less human, the answer is no, therefore they deserve what i deserve or what you deserve, we are all human, therefore we all have human rights

I gotta have it, gotta drink the high life.
I’ll buy a new suit, black skinny necktie.
I’ll mingle with elite and imitate
and they’ll never even get it ’til I hit ’em.

I’ve got no fear ’cause I’ve weathered the breakdown,
San Quentin to the edge of the Big Town.
I’m a man of the people,
in the home of the brave, and I’m no man’s slave.

Because I’m free,
I deserve everything I can get.
I’m American.
I’m American.

If you voted for the man you’re wasting time.
He’s got his fingers dipped in everyone’s pie.
The news can’t wait to promote
all the bullshit this government is selling.

I’ve got this plan in motion, countdown.
Assassinate, terminate, smack down.
There’s a war in my head and it needs to be said.
If they think they can take me they’re dead.

Because I’m free,
I deserve everything I can get.
And I’ll get everything I can get.
I’m American.
I’m American.

What do you believe in?
What are you living for?
Do you want what they’re selling you,
another television war?

I can’t stop! I feel I gotta have more!
That’s right, more!
I want more!
More!

Because I’m free,
I deserve everything I can get.
I’m American.
I’m American.

Because I’m free,
And I’ll get everything I can get.
I’m American.
I’m American.

Are you free?
You deserve everything you can get.
I’m American.
I’m American.

Yeah I’m free,
I deserve everything I can get.
I’m American.
I’m American

 



In Memoriam RVW Jr.

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Final-Fan on 25 March 2009

America! Fuck yeah!



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

The Ghost of RubangB on 26 March 2009
mrstickball said:
jv103 said:
mrstickball said:

Try going to college for 8 years, then working 16hrs a day on double shifts, then watching someone that does no work get paid close to what you do. You'll start to see things differently.

For an entire year, I woke up at 4am every weekday, worked 60hrs a week, and made $8.00hr + overtime. No benefits. It's called unskilled labor. You see, in an economy, some people do things that are more valuable than others. They have the ability to do, say, and understand things better than others. Because of this, they may be entitled to earn compensation that exeedes those that work the same number of hours, but did not put any time into education, to do a good job.

 

Italicized part: Really? Stock Brokers do something more valuable than, dentists, doctors, farmers or even contractors/builders?

Bold: This type of rationalization typically comes when we try to explain inequity and chance. In reality differences are probably marginal, and most of what we deem success is not on individual ability but rather fortune/chance. Of course if you believe that their is some sort of supreme order or logic to the world, then of course that would entail chaos and would be very frightening.

 

Stock brokers help allocate investor funding in projects that can be critical for the development of a nation. Dentists, builders, doctors and farmers may rely on investments to start up their practices, as they've most likely spent their money on education, or equipment for their field. You may not agree that stock brokers need paid real well (and I can agree with you that they're overpaid), but their market dictates that they can earn a lot.

So you think that Brett Farve being a better QB than Ryan Leaf was entirely up to fortune? Chance allows Pele to be a better football player than Kyle Patterson? Yes, fortune and chance may be in the case of some, but it's certainly not in the majority. If chance and fortune dictated life, then every nation in the world would be equal in development.

@bolded: what you're forgetting is that while DNA and birthplace are truly random and are absolutely dependent on fortune/chance, we still live live in a closed system where all the best actors are expected to move to Hollywood to make the most money, all the best programmers are expected to move to Silicon Valley to make the most money, and all the best athletes can make the most money in the U.S. as well.  The U.S. is a talent vacuum.

People are born with vocal cords that dictate singing ability and then move to where they can make the most money off of it.  Britney Spears is richer than me.  Does that mean she was a smarter businessperson than me, or that she was lucky enough to be born with nice tits, and vocal cords that are good enouogh?

TLDR;

Did John Holmes get rich for spending years in education crafting his acting talents, or was he born with it?



twitter.com/evaneldeneller

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TheRealMafoo on 26 March 2009
The Ghost of RubangB said:

Britney Spears is richer than me. Does that mean she was a smarter businessperson than me...

 

You busted your ass to earn 5 grand so you can visit Japan and then come home and live out of dumpsters.

Yes. She is a better businessperson then you.



Epoch on 26 March 2009
The Ghost of RubangB said:

@bolded: what you're forgetting is that while DNA and birthplace are truly random and are absolutely dependent on fortune/chance, we still live live in a closed system where all the best actors are expected to move to Hollywood to make the most money, all the best programmers are expected to move to Silicon Valley to make the most money, and all the best athletes can make the most money in the U.S. as well.  The U.S. is a talent vacuum.

People are born with vocal cords that dictate singing ability and then move to where they can make the most money off of it.  Britney Spears is richer than me.  Does that mean she was a smarter businessperson than me, or that she was lucky enough to be born with nice tits, and vocal cords that are good enouogh?

TLDR;

Did John Holmes get rich for spending years in education crafting his acting talents, or was he born with it?

 

LMFAO.  Well played.  For those who don't know some of John Holmes finer films, do a quick google search.



The Ghost of RubangB on 26 March 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:

Britney Spears is richer than me. Does that mean she was a smarter businessperson than me...

You busted your ass to earn 5 grand so you can visit Japan and then come home and live out of dumpsters.

Yes. She is a better businessperson then you.

Haaaaaaaahahahahaha.  Damn.

Well... she's blown way more money than me overall.  I'd like to assume that if I had her body and her voice and her life I'd be able to do better, but I guess in that case I'd be just as nuts as her too.

At least when I blew all my money I didn't have some babies and a K-Fed to worry about.  I think I'm doing pretty good.



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