how do you know that? maybe they arent as strong as you, maybe they arent as fast as you, they cant help that, its genetics, why shouldnt you help the less able?

So if a football team is going to gross 500 million a year with player x, and 300 million a year without him, he is not worth more then 100k?

Exactly what don't you believe? That's exactly what American taxation is like.

I'll give you an example from my actual work stub:

Income Earned: $5,025

• Federal Income Taxes: $598
• Medicare: $70
• Social Security: $301
• State Income Taxes: $122

That's 21.7% + State Sales Tax (7.0% where I live, on all purchases) on whatever I buy, which equals out to about 28.7%. I make $30,000/yr on salary, so I am certainly in the lower section of taxation. In my case, every 4th paycheck goes to the government for FIT, Medicare, SS, and SIT alone. If you are on welfare, or the like, you keep your money, and do not get taxed on it.

Now, in my case:

• I will never use medicare (I have private health insurance through my company)
• I will never withdrawl from Social Security (virtually useless. Will put about 1/2 what is taken out in SS into a 401k or other investment and make far, far more)
• I was never publically schooled. I was home schooled, and my education cost under $500/yr

Yet I pay for them. Crazy world with crazy taxes. I think that some of the people arguing on these forums about taxation have never paid taxes, and realized how their money gets spent. Americans constantly argue about minimum/living wages, but fail to realize that a large part of what could be living wages are taken out via taxation, and not due to minimum standards.

I should help the less able, and I would. My government should never force me too though. In the example I gave, how is it not stealing from me if I say no?

im not saying let them all in, obviously criminals shouldnt be let in, but law abiding citizens who can work and boost your economy?

Well, although I'm not sure about you paying over 35% in taxes, it's certainly conceivable.  But I am completely sure that you are wrong about the lowest 30% not paying any taxes, unless you are only talking about income taxes and not payroll taxes or any other taxes -- which is pretty meaningless for such a discussion IMO.

Scifi boy and broncos724,

Learn to use the row delete button. I'm sick of seeing 8 deep nested quotes when you are only replying to the last one.

how can you be trusted to give them that money? what if most people dont give that money? you then have poverty and your workforce shrinks, now instead of a 25 farmers, 5 of which are less able, you have 20 farmers, less work can be done

what human is worth 100k a year for anything, sportsmen are a prime example, stupidly overpaid for a job that they could do for 22k a year, the average wage (in the UK)

Why are you so willing to assume that, 100% of the time, that the person cannot help their predicament?

I'll give you a little life-tip: People aren't created equal. But people also do not put equal effort into their life or lifestyle. If a man decides to not work out of laziness, should you provide food for him? If a man smokes, uses heavy drugs, and develops complications from that, should you pay extra (while living healthy yourself) to ensure the sick man that lived poorly is taken care of?

If you live smartly, invest your money wisely, and have a good job because your motivated, should someone forcefully take from you to give to someone that lives stupidly, blows their money on useless goods, has no job 'just cuz'? I don't see life that way. That's why there are some like Mafoo, and myself that believe that all men are created equal, but not everyone puts the same effort into their life and lifestyle, and should not expect to recieve the same reward. If a man works hard, gets promotions - should he not benefit from it? Shouldn't a person that lives dangerously be punished by the reprocussions of his bad actions?