Sweet! yet another thread about this guy just because some random website that 2 people care about posted an article about it, providing no new information as their only source is the invisible walls episode that everyone else on the internet watched!

Honestly, I can't disagree with him more.

I just find it funny people who bash wii for it's casual stereotype yet on their HD machines they themselves own kids games and games for women as shown circled in red

@AkiraGr
Actually I might not be very bright, but _you_ were the proponent of the theory "Nintendo games sell so well because they're simply incredibly good" and that "people who buy Nintendo do so because they appreciate sheer game quality".
My counterexample was Okami. It might not have sold on PS2, but by your logic it should have sold like sliced bread among the Nintendo gourmand gamers, being every ounce as good as Z:TP.

The fact is that it didn't, which means that
a) the Wii gamers are not that more sensible to quality than gamers from other platforms
and / or
b) Nintendo titles rely on brand as much as other established franchises, thus their quality is not beyond questioning in face of the great sales

I feel like I'm stating the obvious with these two, but it was to refute what you wrote in your previous post. Maybe you were carried away, but go read it again.

This has nothing to do with the OT, btw. As your tirade about Nintendo quality had not, either.

Okami is also _one_ of the examples of (solid to great) games that sold in a very poor to mediocre amount on the Wii, especially when compared with the efforts put in them.
The reason is obvious and is that inside the "blue ocean" lies the inner core of more traditional gamers, and that core is by all evidence much smaller than the install bases of PS3 and 360.
There's nothing inherently wrong with that: Nintendo is doing its old thing (its great franchises) plus its new thing (acessible, light-hearted, "casual" gaming): this gives us great games like SMG _and_ makes them money in truckloads. Great.

What I find slightly more disturbing is the mob mentality of those rabid core fans that are ready to appropriate the strength of numbers to go bashing other platforms and games.

When it suits them, they are ready to state that sales equals quality, thus proving that nothing as good as Wii gaming exists outside its borders. But when it does not, the Wii quickly turns back to being a normal platform, where quality and sales are not that strictly correlated.
As I said: you can't have your cake and eat it too.

but he really like Mass Effect!

Demotruk said: Carl2291 said: Wii players are "little kids and old people" and "hardcore Nintendo fanboys" that enjoy games with "crappy graphics and basic control play". Quote of the century     I prefer "Nintendo found their little mass-market niche". Just listen to the podcast/video, the guy is extremely bitter towards Nintendo, and you can tell by the way he talks about how Nintendo was doing last generation.

When you are on the verge of 50 million & your next-in-line competitor is under 30 million that ain't "niche".

He better hope Nintendo doesn't put the squeeze on Microsoft's "hardcore" base this year or he'll be forced to acknowledge that "niche".

John Lucas

All nintendo franchises are selling and made known about their Quality. It was the Nintendo quality seal of approvement that made this for all their established games. This policy brought back the industry from the ashes back in the 80'. Nintendo is still continuing by that policy of excellent quality.

By today's standars Okami is a masterpiece for a niche market but all the others think of it as "fluffy kiddy" game that is tarnishing their hardcore pride plus core gamers prefer already established franchises from new IP regardless the platform.

As i said before quality brings and make a game a success, sure today IS the era of marketing but even with the best promotion in the world a bad game is never accepted by the general puplic on the other hand a mediocre game with this strategy just become over rated.

As you said yourself nintendo delivers on both fronts casual and core with their best quality equally divided something that a 3rd party studio doesn't even try to compete on the Wii and puplishers prefer to bash it. Nintendo just sets the bar to high for them and prefer to jump a small obstacle on the HD consoles which the competition is limited and the recipe is rather known for a comercially successful game rather make a leap of fate based on their quality as developers and create new games and experience on the Wii. In addition their early investents on HD console hardware that was to become a standar on the industry and they try to make up for this bad decision by pushing further their HD development and force it to succeed.

But this is the point HD dork developers believe so much on their opinion that pass it as a fact. Such a same and waste of time to even bother with this stupid narrow minded fool of a developer.

@AkiraGr
Oh, come on... you're just saying the same non sequitur over and over.
The Nintendo seal of quality? Really?
Nobody is intimidated by Nintendo's quality per se. It's not like the handful of great first party games Nintendo releases each generation can totally change its market. And it's not like all first or second party games are actually incredibly great.
Do you really think that many developers hold Mario Kart Wii or Mario and Sonic Olympics in great esteem? Third party developers are scared that their games won't sell if they don't feature Mario or Link.
Take SSBB and reskin it with anonymous weird characters nobody knows. Do you really think it would sell as much as it does? Or once again: look at the sales of Okami, that is also less "fluffy kiddy" than Zelda.

As to the HD consoles investments, do you really think that producers are ready to lose money out of pride to not admit they should also develop for the Wii? There are good reasons to develop for the 360 / PS3 /PC such as the fact that with a 20-30% more your product can be deployed on all three platforms granting a much bigger target demographic, whereas the Wii requires ad-hoc investments unless the whole product is gimped.

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=64866

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=64943&page=1

This quote and some of the points made herein have been debated to death in the other threads. Included in this discussion was how far off-based his profit comments were -- when some company's recent financial statements said the exact opposite.

Quite frankly, this developer makes movie-tie-in games. His current game is receiving mediocre reviews. And until this rant, I had never heard of him. But because he bashed the Wii, it was news (especially on PS3 and Xbox 360 circles).

The truth is, if you work at it, you can make a good quality and successful selling and profitable game on the Wii. However, those are necessary and may not be sufficient conditions. However, if you mail it in, you won't.

Mike from Morgantown

johnlucas said: Demotruk said: Carl2291 said: Wii players are "little kids and old people" and "hardcore Nintendo fanboys" that enjoy games with "crappy graphics and basic control play". Quote of the century     I prefer "Nintendo found their little mass-market niche". Just listen to the podcast/video, the guy is extremely bitter towards Nintendo, and you can tell by the way he talks about how Nintendo was doing last generation.   When you are on the verge of 50 million & your next-in-line competitor is under 30 million that ain't "niche". He better hope Nintendo doesn't put the squeeze on Microsoft's "hardcore" base this year or he'll be forced to acknowledge that "niche". John Lucas

very unlikely