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Forums - General - IDF soldiers discuss 'war crimes' other soldiers commited during Gaza war

im_sneaky on 20 March 2009
Tyrannical said:

And yes I know that photo was a joke. A joke in poor taste that really shows how sick and depraved these Palestinians really are. Makes me doubt there is even a concept of Palestinian civilian.

Here are just a few examples......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_Israeli-Palestinian_conflict

Umm Nidal, who sent three of her sons, including one 17 year old, on suicide attacks, said "I love my children, but as Muslims we pressure ourselves and sacrifice our emotions for the interest of the homeland. The greater interest takes precedence to the personal interest." She was later elected to the Palestinian legislature on the Hamas ticket.[10]

According to Human Rights Watch, On March 24, 2004, one week after capturing a bomb in the bag of 12-year-old Abdullah Quran, Hussam Abdo, a 16-year-old Palestinian (who initially claimed he was 14), was captured in a checkpoint near Nablus wearing an explosive belt. The young boy was paid by the Tanzim militia to detonate himself at the checkpoint. IDF soldiers manning the checkpoint were suspicious of him and told him to stay away from people. Later, an EOD team arrived and by using a police-sapper robot, removed the explosive belt from him.[20][21] Hussam explained that he was offered 100 NIS and sex with virgins if he would perform the task.

One child, Nasser Awartani, 15, of Nablus allegedly recruited four of his classmates, one of whom was claimed by the Shabak report on Awartani to be Hussam Abdo.

On June 16, 2004, two girls - aged 14 and 15 were arrested by the IDF for allegedly plotting a suicide bombing. According to an IDF statement, the two children were recruited by activists from Tanzim (Fatah's armed wing), guided by Hezbollah.[23]

On April 27, two Palestinian teenagers, both aged 15 (though other sources cite their ages as 12 and 13), were arrested at a checkpoint near Jenin after 11 explosive charges were found on them. One teenager was recruited by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the other by the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. The two told interrogators that they had been acting as couriers for terrorists, but security forces suspect they planned to get close to the soldiers and then detonate the charges.[34]

On October 11, a 14-year-old Palestinian boy was arrested by IDF forces. He told the soldiers he was forced to agree to commit a suicide bombing when two terrorists from Fatah's Tanzim faction threatened to murder him by spreading a leaflet accusing him of collaboration unless he agreed. They took pictures of him with a gun and the Qur'an and forced him to write his own will.[36]

On August 27, 2007, A 15-year-old Palestinian boy carrying 2 explosive devices on his body, was arrested in the northern Gaza Strip after he attempted to carry out an attack against soldiers operating in the area against Palestinians launching Qassam rockets on Israeli civilians across the border inside Israel

 

Creepy that your so brainwashed you would think that. Most Palestinians are civilians. More civilians then Hamas fighters died in the recent war.



 

 

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mrstickball on 20 March 2009

im_sneaky - The palestinians voted in Hamas....Doesn't that make civilians co-conspirators in whatever Hamas does?



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Tyrannical on 20 March 2009
im_sneaky said:

 Creepy that your so brainwashed you would think that. Most Palestinians are civilians. More civilians then Hamas fighters died in the recent war.

 

Most Palestinians support Hammas (or a similar group) and support suicide bombings. Those that don't are often killed by those that do.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that they think like us. They don't share our morals or our values.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

blackstar on 20 March 2009
mrstickball said:
im_sneaky - The palestinians voted in Hamas....Doesn't that make civilians co-conspirators in whatever Hamas does?

 

 

do u read history? do u know the people there? u will never see the big picture.



blackstar on 20 March 2009
Tyrannical said:
im_sneaky said:

 Creepy that your so brainwashed you would think that. Most Palestinians are civilians. More civilians then Hamas fighters died in the recent war.

 

Most Palestinians support Hammas (or a similar group) and support suicide bombings. Those that don't are often killed by those that do.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that they think like us. They don't share our morals or our values.

 

red: who r u?

black: thank god we don't



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mrstickball on 20 March 2009
blackstar said:
mrstickball said:
im_sneaky - The palestinians voted in Hamas....Doesn't that make civilians co-conspirators in whatever Hamas does?

 

do u read history? do u know the people there? u will never see the big picture.

I know that Hamas was and is a democratically elected government. I know Hamas is also a terrorist organization. To me, this is like when Germany voted the Nazis in to power - they did it legally, of their own judgement, and were responsible for what the Nazis did. Same goes for those that elect republicans, democrats, greens, conservatives, liberals, labor, and so on.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/26/AR2006012600372.html

Hamas was elected by a group of thier peers. They obtained a majority. That is the historical fact of the argument. Hamas was elected to 'lead' their citizens to independance, and no less. I disagree with how they do it via the rocket strike, but that's their choice, and their reprocussions.

And I'd like to know what 'the big picture is' when voting in radical elements to lead your country in a radical way.

 

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

blackstar on 20 March 2009
mrstickball said:
blackstar said:
mrstickball said:
im_sneaky - The palestinians voted in Hamas....Doesn't that make civilians co-conspirators in whatever Hamas does?

 

do u read history? do u know the people there? u will never see the big picture.

I know that Hamas was and is a democratically elected government. I know Hamas is also a terrorist organization. To me, this is like when Germany voted the Nazis in to power - they did it legally, of their own judgement, and were responsible for what the Nazis did. Same goes for those that elect republicans, democrats, greens, conservatives, liberals, labor, and so on.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/26/AR2006012600372.html

Hamas was elected by a group of thier peers. They obtained a majority. That is the historical fact of the argument. Hamas was elected to 'lead' their citizens to independance, and no less. I disagree with how they do it via the rocket strike, but that's their choice, and their reprocussions.

And I'd like to know what 'the big picture is' when voting in radical elements to lead your country in a radical way.

 

 

u can't separate over 50 years of fighting that led to "hammas being elected" and u just can't separate the OP -which by the way u completely ignored- from that either.

u also don't know how people live there , u don't know how poor and desperate they are and what environment they grew up in and history goes back to more than to 2 or 3 year btw.

saying the majority voted for hammas is also wrong, i don't remember any of them getting more than 40% of the votes if i remember correctly.

u may also wanna know that hammas is not just a military wing , Palestinian know how corrupted Fateh is and they wanted better life conditions too so that how hammas was elected.



blackstar on 20 March 2009

and not being in a terrorist list doesn't mean u r not.

 

edit : I don't know if u read the OP or ignored it like u did with the 4432454534 links that was posted proves Israel army was targeting civilians, so Israel army is a terrorist group even if they are not in ur list that Bush the killer has made.



mrstickball on 20 March 2009

Hamas was elected with 76 of the 132 available seats in the Palestinian parliament. That is a 57.5% majority.

I understand why Hamas was elected. The Palestinians feel that they are owed their lands, and want to fight for it. So they elected radical elements in their country to lead them to prosperity. The same reason any political group comes to power. The issue is that Hamas is on many major nation's list for being a terrorist organization. From Wikipedia:

The United States lists Hamas as a "Foreign Terrorist Organization".[34] Canada officially describes Hamas as a "a radical Sunni Muslim terrorist organization."[224][225] The European Union lists Hamas among the entities against which it applies restrictions in order to combat terrorism.[37] Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs states that "Hamas maintains a terrorist infrastructure in Gaza and the West Bank, and acts to carry out terrorist attacks in the territories and Israel."[226] Japan stated in 2005 that it had frozen the assets of "terrorist organizations, including... Hamas."[227]

That would lead me to believe that Hamas isn't as rosy as your trying to paint it. They are the duly elected leaders of the Palestinian people, and should be treated as such. And if they commit acts of war, they should be treated with proper response.

Now, for the OP - I do think that it's prudent that a full investigation is led into any atrocities committed. Soldiers should be punished if they violated Geneva convention rules, or did anything outside the lines of the proper conduct of war. I just wonder if Hamas would do the same for their irregular army.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

blackstar on 20 March 2009
mrstickball said:
Hamas was elected with 76 of the 132 available seats in the Palestinian parliament. That is a 57.5% majority.

I understand why Hamas was elected. The Palestinians feel that they are owed their lands, and want to fight for it. So they elected radical elements in their country to lead them to prosperity. The same reason any political group comes to power. The issue is that Hamas is on many major nation's list for being a terrorist organization. From Wikipedia:

The United States lists Hamas as a "Foreign Terrorist Organization".[34] Canada officially describes Hamas as a "a radical Sunni Muslim terrorist organization."[224][225] The European Union lists Hamas among the entities against which it applies restrictions in order to combat terrorism.[37] Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs states that "Hamas maintains a terrorist infrastructure in Gaza and the West Bank, and acts to carry out terrorist attacks in the territories and Israel."[226] Japan stated in 2005 that it had frozen the assets of "terrorist organizations, including... Hamas."[227]

That would lead me to believe that Hamas isn't as rosy as your trying to paint it. They are the duly elected leaders of the Palestinian people, and should be treated as such. And if they commit acts of war, they should be treated with proper response.

Now, for the OP - I do think that it's prudent that a full investigation is led into any atrocities committed. Soldiers should be punished if they violated Geneva convention rules, or did anything outside the lines of the proper conduct of war. I just wonder if Hamas would do the same for their irregular army.

red: I'm doing that,

and I think I was wrong about the % , sorry for that.

again u ignored that hammas isn't just a military army and the other choice fateh is corrupted and people in gaza want better life conditions.

the israel army was targeting civilians ,using prohibted weapons, i wonder why they are not on that list too. just because they do it using planes and modern weapons doesn't make them different.