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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The reality of the PS3 frame-rate "issues" versus Xbox 360

There have been many topics n this forum where PS3 owners who bought a console advertised on raw performance see Xbox 360 versions of their games at a higher frame-rate with arguably better graphics. Here I shall explain what is causing this and why the numbers tell us very little. The Playstation 3 is undoubtedly the most powerful console in terms of floating point operations per second ever created, with theoretical performance of 2 TFLOPs according to Sony. Its CPU is based on the Cell Broadband Engine Architecture (CBEA), which derives from IBM's POWER architecture. It consists of nine cores: one general-purpose core and eight Synergistic Processing Elements (SPEs), floating-point operation specialised cores that are connected to it. Two of these are disabled in the PS3 CBE; one to increase yield (number of working processors coming off of production line), and the other for the operating system. To take advantage of this performance, developers would always have to find nine largely independent simultaneous tasks, eight of them primarily floating-point. This is very hard in games, because everything a game does is usually interlinked and branching (if statements), and to add to the difficulty a programmer must deal with asymmetric cores, i.e. SPE instructions are different from general-purpose ones so they can't shuffle tasks automatically between cores and expect similar results. Rather than spending potentially months optimising and separating the code for speed, many big-budget studios opt to just use the single general-purpose core for most of the game. This cuts out all of the advantages the CBEA in the PS3 had because it also stresses the small amount of RAM in the PS3 and forces graphics work to be offloaded to the GPU. The CBEA is great for iterative floating point tasks like prime number searching or protein folding but games primarily require generic, branching CPU tasks which unfortunately only one core of the CBE is designed for. The PS3 GPU is an older core design than the Xbox 360: it does not have unified shaders or many improvements modern PC GPUs have because it was not expected to do most of the floating-point work. Also, CPU-GPU bandwidth is lower than expected because the PS3 is designed for fast communication between processor cores: the CBEA's internal data transfer rate is very high. All of these factors make the PS3 function like a "normal" console, which is easy for the developers but ignores all of the PS3's potential. In contrast, though Xbox 360 uses the POWER architecture too, it's "Xenon" CPU has three general-purpose symmetric cores. It is easier for programmers to think of three general purpose tasks and so a lot more of the CPU's potential is used. Due to the general-purpose design of "Xenon", Microsoft expected all graphics work to go on the GPU and used a very advanced design which was only even available for PCs in April this year. It has high memory bandwidth and unified shaders which make it a very powerful GPU. Finally, because the Xbox 360 was the only seventh-generation console on the market for a year, developers have had much more exclusive time with it to understand how best to use it. The PS3 on the other hand has a much smaller userbase and it came out much later, so there is little financial incentive to get familiar with the PS3 when a studio could make better games with the Xbox 360 now. What all of this means is that while in theory the PS3's power exceeds the Xbox 360, the Xbox 360's layout was easier for developers and to use, it is suited more to game-like tasks, and they are more familiar with it due to historical context and a year's exclusive attention. The PS3 is not lacking potential, and we can expect great games for it in the future, but for now a lot of games on the Xbox 360 will appear to be faster, smoother and more graphically impressive than their PS3 counterparts. A warning: Do not judge ANY console by its "numbers" alone. The 3.2GHz number means very little when comparing consoles to consoles or PCs. The Wii is more powerful than its 729Mhz number suggests. 256MB of memory can be a lot or a little in different contexts. These numbers imply operating speed or operating capacity, not both or the speeds which connect the components together. I can have one transistor running at 100GHz and it'll be less powerful than a "3.2GHz" CPU.



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Nothing new. Everybody -I hope- knows that Playstation 3 is (not by a large margin mind) more powerful that the Xbox360 mainly due to the Cell CPU. On the other hand it's unknown waters even for Sony; I fear it's potential won't be fully exploited until very far in its lifetime.



very interesting read, thanks for the info



the thing with the cell is that it wasn't originally designed with videogames in mind so it isn't well adapted for it's purpose meaning it's harder for developers to unlock it's high levels of power...



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Games purchased since December 30th 2006:
GBA:The Legend of Zelda:The Minish Cap
DS:Lunar Knights, Pokemon Diamond, The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass ,Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, Hotel Dusk:Room 215, Mario vs DK 2: March of the Mini's and Picross DS
PS2: Devil May Cry 3:Dante's Awakening, Shadow of the Colosuss, Sega Mega Drive Collection, XIII , Sonic Mega Collection,Fifa 08 and Fifa 09.
GC:Fight Night Round 2
Wii VC:Super Mario 64 ,Lylat Wars ,Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest, Super Castlevania IV, Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Streets of Rage, Kirby's Adventure, Super Metroid, Super Mario Bros. 3, Mega Man 2Street Fighter 2 Turbo: Hyper Fighting,Wave Race 64 and Lost Winds

Wii: Sonic and the Secret Rings, Godfather:Blackhand Edition, Red Steel, Tony Hawks Downhill Jam, Eledees, Rayman Raving Rabbids, Mario Strikers Charged Football,Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, Super Mario Galaxy,House of the Dead 2 and 3 Return, Wii Fit, No More Heroes and Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

X360: Spider Man
PS3:
Resistance: Fall of Man

 

 

 

 

Still, harder is not the same thing as impossible. It just takes time. How many of the early 3rd party wii games had crapariffic controls? There has been a great deal of improvement in it. I am sure in time both the Cell and the sixaxis will recieve better applications.



"But as always, technology refused to be dignity's bitch."--Vance DeGeneres

 

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valen200 said:
Still, harder is not the same thing as impossible. It just takes time. How many of the early 3rd party wii games had crapariffic controls? There has been a great deal of improvement in it. I am sure in time both the Cell and the sixaxis will recieve better applications.

Yeah, but in this case takes time a lots of money,and the user-base is not big enough to justify it. I cant see the companies throwing the house through the window just for the PS3 and that is a problem.



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fair enough. There is the issue of budgets.




"But as always, technology refused to be dignity's bitch."--Vance DeGeneres

 

http://cheezburger.com/danatblair/lolz/View/4772264960

^^ Yeah, I think many Sony supporters have to realize that in this business you can eather have fast domination or none at all. The PS2 was a sure winner after a year, devs new that and so the domination begann. The PS3 in nowhere close to dominating the market, by the time it catches the 360 most developers will have gone muliplatform (which is allready happening), the first-party 360 and PS3 games will not be enough and by 2009 the dices concerning who gets what game will already have fallen. The PS3 will do fine, no question but it´s not going to take off and bury the 360 or Wii. Game developers just can´t take any chances this Gen expecially concerning the high price for games they need every system they can get.



 

 

 

In your post game boy you said that the PS3 has a low amount of Ram, when infact it has the same amount of Ram as the 360, the PS3 shares its Ram between the CPU/GPU. Plus most people know that the FPS are going to increase next year in the madden sports games, considering last years games on the 360 all ran at 30 FPS.

Sony and many other companies have already been able to bring the PS3 past the 360 in Graphics, Sony has made serveral sports games at 1080p and 60FPS, plus the guys behind GT have made their game run at the same specs.

Games like Killzone, RFOM and unreal have proven that the PS3 is can do just as much if not more then the 360.



^^^ I think one of the most important things he said was that a console should not be viewed as raw numbers.

Also, Unreal is not out yet so it has not proved anything. I have heard the Graphics on RFOM are good, but the point was that Sony had promised the biggest baddest system ever, not one that could do as much as the other Hd system on the market.



"But as always, technology refused to be dignity's bitch."--Vance DeGeneres

 

http://cheezburger.com/danatblair/lolz/View/4772264960