The_vagabond7 said: How many people want a world wide economic collapse over a more socialistic america? A surprising amount. Fuck the world, we aren't having any goverment owned banks. Who do you think we are?!?! THE FUCKING SWEDES? Not in my country. And whoever said that right and wrong are forever and shouldn't change, go read the old testament and tell me how much of that you would want to retain in today's modern age. Right and wrong are circumstantial. No Holy man (founding fathers included) have 100% timeless advice that should be adhered to at all times. They are products of the time they live in. Following the philosophies of one man or group of men no matter what is just idealism, which is a horrific way to lead.

 

im a tad confused, are you pro or anti Obama?

SciFiBoy said: The_vagabond7 said: How many people want a world wide economic collapse over a more socialistic america? A surprising amount. Fuck the world, we aren't having any goverment owned banks. Who do you think we are?!?! THE FUCKING SWEDES? Not in my country. And whoever said that right and wrong are forever and shouldn't change, go read the old testament and tell me how much of that you would want to retain in today's modern age. Right and wrong are circumstantial. No Holy man (founding fathers included) have 100% timeless advice that should be adhered to at all times. They are products of the time they live in. Following the philosophies of one man or group of men no matter what is just idealism, which is a horrific way to lead.   im a tad confused, are you pro or anti Obama?

How is that even relevant to my post? I'm for all intents and purposes I'm neither.

SciFiBoy said: The_vagabond7 said: How many people want a world wide economic collapse over a more socialistic america? A surprising amount. Fuck the world, we aren't having any goverment owned banks. Who do you think we are?!?! THE FUCKING SWEDES? Not in my country. And whoever said that right and wrong are forever and shouldn't change, go read the old testament and tell me how much of that you would want to retain in today's modern age. Right and wrong are circumstantial. No Holy man (founding fathers included) have 100% timeless advice that should be adhered to at all times. They are products of the time they live in. Following the philosophies of one man or group of men no matter what is just idealism, which is a horrific way to lead.   im a tad confused, are you pro or anti Obama?

I don't think he's either.

But yeah... Sweden definitly isn't doing any better either.

Really there is no way to lower risk when it comes to this kind of stuff since the regulations will always play with the politicians people will ALWAYS notice a mild recession.

The US people do anyway... and everytime there was a hint of one greenspan would screw with it so we had a few more years of borrowed prosperity.

The international community actually used the financial crisis to it's advantage to get Sweeden to open up it's account info some more.  Since if they didn't they were going to blacklist the country which would lose it some investments... and sweden is desperate to keep investors.

Kasz216 said: SciFiBoy said: The_vagabond7 said: How many people want a world wide economic collapse over a more socialistic america? A surprising amount. Fuck the world, we aren't having any goverment owned banks. Who do you think we are?!?! THE FUCKING SWEDES? Not in my country. And whoever said that right and wrong are forever and shouldn't change, go read the old testament and tell me how much of that you would want to retain in today's modern age. Right and wrong are circumstantial. No Holy man (founding fathers included) have 100% timeless advice that should be adhered to at all times. They are products of the time they live in. Following the philosophies of one man or group of men no matter what is just idealism, which is a horrific way to lead.   im a tad confused, are you pro or anti Obama? I don't think he's either. But yeah... Sweden definitly isn't doing any better either. Really there is no way to lower risk when it comes to this kind of stuff since the regulations will always play with the politicians people will ALWAYS notice a mild recession. The US people do anyway... and everytime there was a hint of one greenspan would screw with it so we had a few more years of borrowed prosperity. The international community actually used the financial crisis to it's advantage to get Sweeden to open up it's account info some more.  Since if they didn't they were going to blacklist the country which would lose it some investments... and sweden is desperate to keep investors.

All of this is true. My gripe is more with the idea that America shouldn't go any more left based on some group of ancient holy men's ideas because socialism and other left leaning idealogies are inherently evil in a deontological way, that it's just a given that they're wrong in all their forms and at all times, and can contribute nothing because it's unamerican (Adams, Washington, Moses, they all said so more or less) is just mind boggling to me. Free market capitalism is deeply flawed in it's purest form, which is why America hasn't had it for a long time. If a person thinks that there are better ways to solve the economic crisis, fine. I can think of some other ideas myself. But the religious fervor dedicated to men who lived in different times as a justification for things being right or wrong is ridiculous. Adams was not the son of bog, so I really don't give a fuck about what he would think about today's america.

What's with all this nostalgia? Like the U.S. was a much better or easier place to live in?
I find the idea that the government stayed out of your business, and people were great and upstanding citizens completely laughable. This is the fairy tale that usually starts with "back in the good ol' days." Get over it, it's total bullshit - America was never a paradisical libertarian dream. Shit was fucked up, still is, and will be.

I just have concluded that people will complain about anything and everything, people just whine. "Give us roads, stoplights, schools, clean water blah blah blah." Let the free market control water, schools, stoplights, bridges, fix potholes, create security, labor laws and everything else...all our problems would be solved instantly because we would no longer have any taxes.

Of course, one bogey man would be replaced by another.

Kasz216 said: Jo21 said: AIG lost 61 BILLION dollars in a quarter last year. they are using BAILOUT Money to give High rank executives million dollar bonuses over around 170 million!!! So the government should be more careful with their money next time... before handing it out without preconditions? What the government is doing right now is basically blackmail.  I'd be surprised if it even would hold up legally. A special tax specifically for one company with the directly stated goal of being for said company... i mean really? What's next a tax specifically targeting fast food restruants named Burgerking etc.

 

a tons of useless executive should get million dollars bonuses for ruining their company? i don't think so.

Jo21 said: Kasz216 said: Jo21 said: AIG lost 61 BILLION dollars in a quarter last year. they are using BAILOUT Money to give High rank executives million dollar bonuses over around 170 million!!! So the government should be more careful with their money next time... before handing it out without preconditions? What the government is doing right now is basically blackmail.  I'd be surprised if it even would hold up legally. A special tax specifically for one company with the directly stated goal of being for said company... i mean really? What's next a tax specifically targeting fast food restruants named Burgerking etc.   a tons of useless executive should get million dollars bonuses for ruining their company? i don't think so.

If it's in their contracts?  Yes.  If their CEO's deem it so?  Yes.

There is nothing saying they shouldn't...  and trying to blackmail someone otherwise goes against anything a democratic society believes in.

A specialized tax targeting a group of people the government disagrees with is much more dangerous then a few incompetants getting big bonuses.

 

Kasz216 said: Jo21 said: Kasz216 said: Jo21 said: AIG lost 61 BILLION dollars in a quarter last year. they are using BAILOUT Money to give High rank executives million dollar bonuses over around 170 million!!! So the government should be more careful with their money next time... before handing it out without preconditions? What the government is doing right now is basically blackmail.  I'd be surprised if it even would hold up legally. A special tax specifically for one company with the directly stated goal of being for said company... i mean really? What's next a tax specifically targeting fast food restruants named Burgerking etc.   a tons of useless executive should get million dollars bonuses for ruining their company? i don't think so. If it's in their contracts?  Yes.  If their CEO's deem it so?  Yes. There is nothing saying they shouldn't...  and trying to blackmail someone otherwise goes against anything a democratic society believes in. A specialized tax targeting a group of people the government disagrees with is much more dangerous then a few incompetants getting big bonuses.

 

Sadly he is right.

TheRealMafoo asked:

"So back to the point of this thread. Should it be ok for Washington to target small groups of people, and take money they have earned just because government feels they don't "deserve" it?"

To answer your question, imo, if such money is an extraordinary amount that is going to go to aid a very small number of people much to the detriment of the majority of the people in our society, then I believe they should.